Gucci, I see your advice as being relevant to me in the first two areas - listen, understand her issues, even when they are expressed as an emotional attack, find and then find agreement and address the issues, rather than pushing back, minimizing, invalidating or otherwise avoiding the issue.
You really don't have to understand her on everything. Not necessary. (matter of fact it would drive you to the funny farm trying to understand everything about a woman)
Listen, agree with her side, apologize if she says something she believes you did wrong or said wrong. Do it sincerely. Then be quiet and go happily about your day.
You do NOT have to analyze her. You do NOT have to figure out her problems(s). If she asks for your advice, by all means give her your feedback. (IF she asks is the key)
You as a man should know that us men are simple creatures in many respects...
MAKE IT SIMPLE ON YOU..... Agreeing is simple. it works.
Learn to be good at it. You will discover that agreeing is the farthest thing from what kettricken is trying to bring up.
Do what works. Stay with what works. Simple is better. It saves you ton of all this other analyzing and deep thinking that you seem to be addicted to...
There is a difference between being agreeable on things which are of low consequence: - "You are right dear, that movie was great!" - "You are right dear, that friend was horrible to you"
(Note: I used to debate with my W on this sort of thing, and now have stopped)
And of avoiding / facing conflict over things of consequence: - "Yes Dear, spend whatever you want. No need to tell me" - "Yes Dear, of course you can take on that volunteer work which takes you away every evening and keeps me from doing anything myself - no need to even ask"
The last 2 examples are, of course, completely facetious, but I did just have a humdinger of an argument with my w about $ and how we prioritize it's use.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
There is a difference between being agreeable on things which are of low consequence: - "You are right dear, that movie was great!" - "You are right dear, that friend was horrible to you"
?????????? Where are you trying to go with this nonsense????
Your wife doesn't care if you tell her you don't like a movie that she likes... UNLESS you are telling her you don't like it just to be contrary. (she can tell the difference)( and many men DO disagree JUST to be contrary) The key is allowing her like the movie without being condescending or trying to make her look stupid or like a fool because she DOES disagree with you...
No wonder you are struggling... You are at square one her aren't you?
Thinker..... The agreement principle I mentioned to you was for the issue (your parents vs you and her) that you were talking about. Those types of things.. Don't go overboard on this and take things out of context.
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And of avoiding / facing conflict over things of consequence: - "Yes Dear, spend whatever you want. No need to tell me" - "Yes Dear, of course you can take on that volunteer work which takes you away every evening and keeps me from doing anything myself - no need to even ask"
The last 2 examples are, of course, completely facetious, but I did just have a humdinger of an argument with my w about $ and how we prioritize it's use.
I am reading something quite different... You sure you weren't in the "preach to her mode" and how "we" prioritize it's use?..
( don't forget.. I take care of the money in my house too, so I DO know what I am talking about)
I would venture to say you were using the back handed way of saying to her... "you don't prioritize the use of money as well as I do"...
That is what I would say you mean...
Why didn't you say to her...
"You know honey, I guess I always come across as knowing everything about how to priortize money and probably sound to you that I don't like it when you spend it and don't tell me first or don't trust you with the spending of our money"? Do you think I come across that way to you?"
Why didn't you have your doozey of an argument on making the "how we prioritze" money and take out the we and speak for yourself and your own failures in prioritizing? Maybe she views you as a tightass with money... did you agree with her views on YOU and her end of the argument?....
You sure you aren't guilty of some of the same things you say about her regarding money. Or are you the opposite and count every penny? (women hate that)
The extended Thinker family seems to be on the brink of War.
The dynamic has been building for years between my parents and my wife, and is coming to a head.
My w's biggest offense seems to be having married me.
My mother is avoids conflict and will never admit that she is unhappy with anyone or anything, but she feels insult easily and holds grudges forever. To this day she has never admitted to me having ANY resentment about ANYTHING to do with my wife - even as recently as last night. She hides from conflict, and then looks for allies, and has been vocally badmouthing my w to other members of my family. I hear about it from them.
My dad protects his wife. He takes her complaints, magnifies them, and gets angry.
I am only finding the details of the "complaints" by asking direct questions to my Dad and other family members - my mom won't admit that anything is wrong.
The complaints against my W are petty, wrongly directed, based on incorrect facts, and mostly ancient history. They start with the first day they met her - when I (Age 26 and fully independent) chose to spend a vacation with the future Mrs. Thinker rather than with my parents and younger siblings. (Obviously her fault )
They continue through the seating arrangements at our wedding 10 years ago, missed thank you notes, and even to the fact that while I was debt free when we got married (Thanks to my parents having saved for college and a large ROTC scholarship), Mrs. Thinker had student loans from her masters degree (Yes, really really weird, I know))
Recent resentments include the fact that the kids were baptized in Mrs. Thinkers form of Christianity rather than mine (I helped make the decision), that her family got to be godparents more frequently (I helped choose the godparents) etc etc.
So the dynamic proceeded. They took everything that they didn't like as a personal insult and blamed it all on her. They held on tight to these resentments, but didn't say anything. It just came out in their attitudes, side comments, etc. I ignored it (shame on me) but Mrs. Thinker, who is very attuned emotionally, was hurt repeatedly. She was unhappy around them, and tried to avoid them...
...and then my parents began to resent her because they felt avoided.
A piece of the M issues we are now facing is that over time, Mrs. Thinker began associating me with my parents (apple never falls far from the tree). My way of coping with my parents has always just been to ignore them - to laugh them off. I guess I just always expected her to do the same, but Mrs. Thinker clearly saw my way of coping as me not supporting her and not standing up for her.
She has been really open about this over the past few days - at times I just had to put on my spew raincoat and listen (Thanks Coach). Even when I wanted to react to the vehemence and universality (completely, always, never) of her attacks, I agreed with what she was saying and understood her feelings. (Thanks Gucci)
I mentioned earlier that My parents were scheduled to come here and babysit for our kids while we go to Retrouvaille next weekend. Last week, as these old arguments started coming out, Mrs. Thinker vehemently refused to have them come here, and I agreed with her. I realize that having them here for that weekend is in effect inviting them into our M, and I want no part of that.
So yesterday, I called my parents, thanked them for generously agreeing to help for the weekend, but saying that I had to now ask them not to come. This weekend was something between me and my W, and that I realize that they do not like Mrs. Thinker right now and that having them in the house would be too uncomfortable for all of us. I have to focus first on my marriage and my wife right now. We made other arrangements for childcare for the weekend. I tried to be completely clear that this was MY DECISION.
The conversation was calm, and my Mom predictably said only "I'm not upset" and "I don't know why ANYONE would think that I don't like Mrs. Thinker..."
...but then she IMMEDIATELY got on the phone and called my siblings and started looking for allies - complaining to them about my w and saying "She is trying to keep me away from her children" "She doesn't approve of our family" etc.
A nightmare, but my marriage and my wife come first.
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4 days to Retrouvaille.
Last edited by Thinker; 09/14/0903:45 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
WOW, Thinker. I have lived this SAME, EXACT situation b/w my mother and W. A lot of what you wrote I could have written.
First, you seem like a pretty bright guy, so I hope you already recognize the classic passive-agreesive nature of your mother. Avoids conflict, says she's fine, but keeps a running list of people and events who have wronged her. The building alliances within the family is part of that too - and my mother did the exact same thing. One suggestion is to view this from a different perspective - I'm not sure it is as much building alliances as controlling the family through the creation of divisive little camps who all want/need mom's approval. That is empowering to your mother (JUST LIKE MINE).
Not to be a smarta$$, but I find it ironic that your father is doing exactly what you are doing - protecting your W. As a man, he should be able to see you are doing the right thing. Maybe he can, but your mom has too much control? Would fit with the dynamic. On that topic, who is the "leader" of the family - your dad or your mother? And I don't mean the "apparent" leader, but the real one.
As I'm sure you know by now, you are going to have to stand your ground on this battle. This is a BIG one when it comes to your M. All you can do now to show your W you are choosing her over your family is to show her by your actions. Keep expecting her to vent at and on you. Until she separates you from your family, it will keep coming. And she needs to get the anger out.
In my sitch with my mother, it played out and, as usual, the truth came out about how my mother was acting and how she was pitting me and my siblings (and even my step father) against one another. While I have a great R now with my step father and sib's, that was not always the case.
First, you seem like a pretty bright guy, so I hope you already recognize the classic passive-agreesive nature of your mother.
Yep. I do now (and have for a while). For a long time I just saw her as pleasant, agreeable, and helpful.
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As a man, he should be able to see you are doing the right thing. Maybe he can, but your mom has too much control? Would fit with the dynamic. On that topic, who is the "leader" of the family - your dad or your mother? And I don't mean the "apparent" leader, but the real one.
I'd have to say my mom is the real leader. If my Dad wants to do something, he does it without really asking her, but as far as family relations, etc my Mom is in charge.
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As I'm sure you know by now, you are going to have to stand your ground on this battle. This is a BIG one when it comes to your M. All you can do now to show your W you are choosing her over your family is to show her by your actions.
Agreed and understood.
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Keep expecting her to vent at and on you. Until she separates you from your family, it will keep coming. And she needs to get the anger out.
yep
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In my sitch with my mother, it played out and, as usual, the truth came out about how my mother was acting and how she was pitting me and my siblings (and even my step father) against one another. While I have a great R now with my step father and sib's, that was not always the case.
I am already seeing this. The only reason I am now seeing what is happening is that my siblings turn right around and come back to me. They didn't do this previously because they didn't want to hurt me, cause conflict, etc.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Because my siblings are now open with me about what they hear, I am now hearing all of the petty and strange grudges that my mom is holding about my wife.
Should I tell my wife?
My instinct says "Yes". I need to be open with her. She deserves to know what is going on. She does understand that my mom does not like her, and she does know that my mom holds strange and wrong ideas about her, but I have not yet told her the details of what I am hearing - just a few highlights.
The only reason that I wouldn't is that these resentments that my mom is holding are petty, incorrect and hurtful. The details will hurt my wife, while not giving her anything she can do anything about. It will make her angry on the basis of 3rd party information (she hears from me that I heard from my sibling that my mom said...).
Telling my W is also (in a way) passing the problem on to her (or sharing it with her) rather than taking care of it on my own. I do feel like I should be protecting her from my families problems.
If this were your MIL, would you want your spouse to tell you?
I'm thinking "Yes"
Last edited by Thinker; 09/14/0904:35 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
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