I have been quietly following your thread and wanted to offer you some support. I also want to suggest something to you in the hope that it may help you.
I do not pretend to know all of the ins and outs of abusive relationships or what it is like, from firsthand experience anyway, to try to leave one. I have known a number of people, some of them very dear to me, who have had to extricate themselves from them, so I know how very hard it is.
Here is my suggestion. In many of your posts you seem to vascillate about the reasons why your H does the things he does or what he feels. I suggest, if you can, that you stop thinking about that altogether, as what matters right now is your safety and well-being (and that of your children). Spending precious energy on why he thinks, feels and acts as he does drains you of the resources you need to help yourself.
One way to do this might be to step back, just a bit, and ask yourself what you might say to a close girlfriend or a sister, if her partner were treating her as your H treats you. I have found it helpful to think about my circumstances as if they were happening to someone dear to me and then asking myself how I might counsel her. It helps to give me some needed perspective and it reminds me to keep my mind focused on me and changes that I need to make to make my life all that I want it to be.
It is sometimes difficult to convey tone on these boards, so I will say explicitly that my intention is not to hit you with a 2x4, that is not my way. I simply wanted to share my thoughts with you in the hope that they might help you in some way.
Bunny - you need to include this in the statement you said you would write for the MC:
"He threatened earlier this summer that if he gave up swinging, he "would reach a point where he couldn't take it anymore and would have to do something about it." He wasn't joking."
Make damn sure that the MC really truly understands the entire issue here. H is going to try to make light of every single facet of your side of the story. Put it in writing and make sure it gets said in front of the MC!!!
I made my points, here are the main ones: •Our first time swinging (Hell night) •Pain of swinging outweighs benefits •H’s cheating threat from summer •My feeling like a free hooker •Accusations of “c**kblocking” •Status of profiles (H stated that his single male profile is still up, and our couple profiles are still out there but blank) •Stated how my feelings/thoughts are discarded or minimized •Recommendation from IC of NO medication needed •H’s anger issues
H’s main points: •Desire for more social interaction •Treatment of my “anxiety” issues •Desire to see me as more confident and a full partner •Swinging is not a deal-breaker if we can get things back on track •H’s attempts at constructive criticism of me
We go back a week from Tuesday, and we’re supposed to think about what kind of goals we want to achieve. The MC seemed nice enough. He thought there was a possibility to put things back together and we would have a better feel of the direction we want to go in after 2 or 3 months. He did note that I seemed to articulate my feelings pretty well today.
I don't know what to think. Do I really want to continue in this direction with MC? I do know that the only “c**kblocking” I’m doing now is H, and I think that will continue, I’m no where near ready to resume relations with him.
“we’re supposed to think about what kind of goals we want to achieve” I don’t know if we can agree on what we want our marriage to look like, what work is required to achieve it and who should do the work. Each of us is heavily tilting it towards the other. And honestly, I don’t know if I even want to try. It seems like I should, but I don’t.
H was pushing the anxiety/confidence issues heavily and voiced his opinion that I need meds, because he thought I was so much better when I was on Paxil previously. I told the MC that I have been seeing an IC for several months, and she saw no need for that. The MC proceeded to tell H why some people don’t like being on Paxil because of the way it makes them feel and other side effects. Which is fine but besides the point- "I don't NEED it" is the point!
The MC then started giving H ideas on ways to give me “constructive criticism” in a way that I won’t get defensive. H pointed out he was already trying the approach he suggested. Great…
H’s anger issues- H says he just needs to vent. Can’t I tell the difference between when he’s yelling at me and when he’s just yelling in general? Either way, it wears me down. Gee- here’s an idea- How about learning to not let it get to you so bad or finding some additional outlets for venting? I’m not saying I’m not willing to listen, I am, but let’s ease up a little… H’s chronic and chronic health issues lead to a very irritable personality a lot of the time; I got in the habit of walking on eggshells to try to keep things peaceful and don’t know when I can relax around him.
Here's a question- Why isn’t there a need for H to see an IC to see why he needs a new p***sy every once in a while? His “Married but Looking” profile is still active. H didn’t say what he did about the passwords for our couple’s profiles- just that they were still out there but empty. I’m not changing my mind about it. Maybe he’s keeping the name in reserve in case he wants to use it with someone else if not me.
Why didn’t anyone address how hurt I feel? It's not like I didn't point it out. I asked H, don’t you think you contribute anything to the R dynamic where I don’t feel safe to talk? “Probably” I told them how hurt I felt on Hell Night, how hurt I am to see him f**k another woman, how I felt like a stupid hooker… I guess I’m looking for H to say he’s sorry, but that’s not happening. I told H I wanted him to give up swinging because he didn’t want me hurt, not because I twisted his arm. “I think it goes without saying that I don’t want you hurt”. What about those other women saying to you that I looked unhappy? “You were going along with it, so I didn’t give them much mind” And H's cheating threat from summer? It wasn't a cheating threat- "I just meant I would eventually miss it and get antsy" Sure H, whatever...
I question whether the C has a clue about how to deal with this issue. The other possibility is that you H is so "good" at selling his crap that the C bought it, the way you did for years. Of course the C doesn't get to live with it.
(((((Bunny)))))
I know, I'm a broken record. But if you get out, and get some space, it will give your mind a chance to clear. I think the longer you stay there, the greater the chance that he pulls you back in. And then it will only be a matter of time before you are back to the same place again.
You're just getting secondary abuse from this moron of a counselor. VH is right, this MC doesn't have a clue about this type of situation. You hit the nail on the head...your H is the one who needs serious help. YOU'RE insecure? Because your husband likes screwing other people?
Narcissistic people are notorious for reeling in therapists too.
YOUR counselor said you have symptoms of PTSD!!!!!! From being emotionally and sexually abused!!! GET AWAY FROM HIM AND THIS MC.
You KNOW in your heart, bunny, that both of them are wrong. TRUST YOUR GUT. Always. Don't get sucked back in to feeling like you "should" want to try. WHY? Why should you?
I question whether the C has a clue about how to deal with this issue.
I'm not sure either. Maybe he glossed over it and moved on because he didn't know what to do or say about it. I loved the look on his face as I told him.
I question whether the C has a clue about how to deal with this issue.
I'm not sure either. Maybe he glossed over it and moved on because he didn't know what to do or say about it. I loved the look on his face as I told him.
Ha. good observation. He probably thought, oh [censored], but then fell back on some kind of misguided notion that he's not allowed to "take sides" and not allowed "to judge."
Unfortunately a lot of women experience this kind of crap when they go to C with an abuser. Anyway, the issue isn't about judging swinging, it's about judging someone being coerced into activities that are degrading TO HER. YOU get to be the judge of that.
And my blood is boiling thinking about the term "constructive criticism." WTF is that? You aren't DOING ANYTHING. He doesn't need "help" trying to convince you to act any way other than how you feel comfortable.
Part of what you're experiencing is the very reason that I don't think MC is what you should be doing. MC is usually about trying to find a way to help the couple manage their relationship - and it often falls on the T to find a kind of middle ground from which to offer and advice - and toward which to bring both partners together. But I just don't think it works when there is an abusive spouse involved.
When I went to MC with my STBX, she did an exceptional job of making me out to be a monster. My mistake then was to try to validate her - not to disagree with her, not to challenge her stories, not to stand up for myself. I had this idea that if I listened, and didn't contradict what she said, it would help us...and I think that normally, that could be the case - but with an abusive spouse it just doesn't seem to work. My STBX took my silence as an opportunity to convince our MC of her POV - and she passed herself off as a victim...this lasted for the first couple months of sessions - until I finally started speaking up - and then my STBX started saying the craziest things - and only then did our MC realize that our situation was pretty dire...and not as it was presented by my STBX...Then again, maybe our MC knew that already - but was just all too happy to take our money...
We stopped going after MC finally started to challenge STBXs words and actions - and STBX then insisted that I had manipulated the MC into seeing things my way and attacking her. STBX also said that our sessions proved to her that I was a manipulative, abusive husband...
My point? Get out of MC. Stick with you IC - let your H decide whether or not he goes to an IC himself - but right now your H is just getting an opportunity to rationalize and justify himself - and to focus his attention on you and the relationship - instead of on himself.
Have you read Patricia Evans' "The Verbally Abusive Man, Can he change?". I would highly recommend it.
BTW...for what it's worth...I don't think your is equipped for your situation. He may not be an idiot, but he does seem to be out of his depth.
