I am on my second marriage, with my first I married at 18 to escape an unhappy family life and after 8 years of marriage we both grew up and grew apart.
With my current husband I was quite happy, but it seemed like soon after we said "I do" our sex life ended. At first it dwindled to once a week, then once every few weeks... to months.
I was always the one to instigate things and the constant turn downs were very hard on my self esteem.
My husband was not internet literate and I wanted to help him out so I set him up a free e-mail through a popular website where he could also play games. (This was around year two of our marriage) A few months later I became curious when he would hide the monitor when he was online so I checked his e-mail and found out that he was having an online affair. I was shocked, especially since he showed no interest in me, so I explained to him that cheating online was still cheating, which he said he didn't know and he swore that he would never do it again and I threatened to 'call his mother' if I ever caught him cheating again. (He is very close to his mother)
About a year later I was at his work to pick him up when I found a few e-mail addresses in his desk and asked him about them, he got mad and wanted me to give them to him so he could throw them away, but he was called away before I could. I copied them and when he came back I gave them to him and he told me that they were distributors and no longer valid. When we got home I contacted the e-mail addresses as him under his old e-mail account and discovered that they were other online women that he was having online affairs with.
I was absolutely crushed and carried through with my threat (childish, I know, but I said I would do it and he was horrified that I did and his mother gave him a lecture that I never could). Once moe he swore that he would never do it again.
What hurt me the most was that I had tried to get him to write to me online, to 'act' things out with me... being silly, but he said he just was not into doing things like that. He was... just not with me. He would spend his time making sure that these other women felt desired and wanted while ignoring me. We were down to having sex about twice a year by this point and started sleeping in seperate rooms because I could not stand being in the same bed when I was sure that I disgusted him. He swore that was not the case and told me that he was using online to try to get into the mood... but I was not buying it and made sure that he could no longer get online from home.
He started coming home on time from work and stopped going in early, but other than that he refused to try anything to work on our relationship. I told him that he was the one that broke it and he had to be the one to fix it, but he has done nothing.
Three years ago I discovered that he was back at it... we were on our way out of town to a major University Hospital for pre-op testing for me and stopped to get some bottled water, and while he ran in I checked his phone and saw a number on there I did not recognise, so I asked him about it when he came back and he got furious and demanded his phone back immediatly. My heart fell because I knew immediatly what that meant. I asked who it was and he told me it was a vender for buisness cards and they called him at 8pm the night before while he was out getting the car filled with gas (he was gone for an hour) and he had to take care of an issue. I said "fine, then I will call the number" and did just that as he tried to get the phone from me... and a female voice answered saying "hi, baby, why didn't you call my work number?"
So, I discovered, on my way to pre-op testing that he had been carrying on a very involved affair for almost a year both online and on the phone. I asked her if she knew he was married and she said "yes". I then hung up and told him exactly what I thought of him as he tried over and over to deny it all. We had not had sex for 2 years at this point... and he swore that he was having 'troubles' in that department and that they had never met real life. That night we had sex, and afterwards I cried until it was time to go to get my testing the next morning.
Two days later, when we got home I managed to get his new e-mail address out of him and contacted her as him through the e-mail with him sitting there and talking to her as him, because he would not tell me anything and said that they had not been 'doing' anything for a long time and they were 'just friends'. I discovered from her, with him sitting there, that they were very involved and the night she called him they had a very long online 'session' while he was in a parking lot.
That was 3 years 6 months ago and we have not had any physical contact since that time. Our phone bills are itemized so I can see every call that is made and any text messages, but I do not know what he does at work and I just cannot trust him.
Two weeks ago an endocrinologist verified that his testosterone is extremely low and they are starting him on replacement therapy and he just says "see, I was not lying, I never cheated on you physically."
He cannot understand that he might not have cheated on me physically... but he did in every other way possible. He has shown me no attention, rebuffed me when I tried to start anything (something I have not done since that time at the University Hospital) yet he has spent alot of time making strangers feel wanted and desired. He put forth an effort to see to their pleasure... all the while ignoring me and making me feel like the most disgusting least desirable person in the world.
I just cannot trust him... I have no way of knowing what happens on his work e-mail, work computer or who calls him at work. He is doing the late nights at times, early mornings and making a habit of taking an hour for a 15 minute errand again, but I am not sure if I even care anymore... I am so angry that it is not even the cheating that bothers me. I want him to be as misserable as he has made me.
I know I am bitter... I try not to be, I hold it back and try very hard to act like nothing is wrong but every once in a while something sets me off and I just explode, telling him how I feel, how he has made me feel.
I am trapped... I am disabled, my health is horrible and the stress is not helping matters. I cannot work due to major health issues and do not have anywhere to go and if I tried to leave I would be homeless and without health insurance.
I feel trapped and hopeless and he is unwilling to do anything to try to work on things. I would bring up marriage counseling and he would say he would check to see what was covered and never does. He swears he loves me and that it is not that he does not want me but that he has no desire for anyone at all, but I think that I am just a 'habit'.
I don't think I will ever be able to trust him again... three times I caught him cheating, each time he swore he never would again... and later I catch him. I am wondering when the next time will be... it is just a matter of time.
I am sorry tis is rambling... I just do not know what to think or do and I am trapped.
One thing is that he knew when he met me that I have a very strong sex drive... and it was not until after our wedding night (where he watched football while I fell asleep in the bed while waiting for him) that he even told me he never really had much of a sex drive.
I think what gets me the most is his total lack of concern about how I feel... he will spend energy and time having online and phone affairs that are every explicit but has not touched me in an overt sexual nature in the past (before the RIP went up on our sex life) without my instigating it. He sees to the needs of strangers, but not me.
M- 11 y H- 40 Me- 41 D (1st M) 19 S (1st M) 17 First EA (w/OOW)discovered 2000 Third EA (w/OOW & phone) discovered 02/06 SSM (total) 3 1/2 years
First off let me say that I really feel for you. Almost all of us here know the sting of rejection like that, and you have been dealing with it for a long time now. Not only that, but all the lying. Ug...
I do hope you will stick around here. I have found that digging into your relationship involves really looking into yourself more than anything, and it can be a life-changing experience if you are willing to approach it with an open mind. There are some really great people here, with much wisdom to offer.
Your situation is particularly tough, since you rely on him so much financially. Would it be too personal to request more information on your disability, and the limitations it imposes on your ability work and/or go out on your own? Also, how long have you had these health issues, from the beginning of the relationship, or more recently? No pressure to answer such questions if you would prefer not to.
I am out of time for now, but I will check back here again soon.
SF
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Let me introduce myself. I am a middle-aged man, married to my first wife for the past 24 years, the last two of which has been spent in repairing our relationship from near-divorce and long-term "sex-starved marriage" status. You're welcome to review my history and SSM recovery steps, which I summarized in this post.
Despite the fact that I've come from the high-desire male / low-desire female perspective, I could identify with much of what you wrote. For example:
Originally Posted By: BrokenTrust
We were down to having sex about twice a year by this point and started sleeping in seperate rooms because I could not stand being in the same bed when I was sure that I disgusted him.
For a few years, I too slept in a separate bedroom because I couldn't stand having the woman I wanted to take just a few inches away from me, but knew that (in my mind at the time) she didn't desire me and didn't want me to desire or touch her. The only way I could sleep was to remove myself to another room.
In reviewing the process of my own successful SSM recovery, and watching a handful of other folks on this board who have had success in that area over the past couple of years, I realized that for nearly all of these cases, there were four basic "phases" to that process, which I talk about in this post. I would also strongly recommend obtaining MWD's The Sex-Starved Wife, along with it's older companion The Sex-Starved Marriage, if you haven't done so already.
If you'll allow, I'd like to point to a couple of things regarding phases 1 and 2 of "The Four Phases of SSM Recovery," particular to your case. You wrote:
Originally Posted By: BrokenTrust
I am not sure if I even care anymore... I am so angry that it is not even the cheating that bothers me. I want him to be as miserable as he has made me.
I know I am bitter... I try not to be, I hold it back and try very hard to act like nothing is wrong but every once in a while something sets me off and I just explode, telling him how I feel, how he has made me feel.
While I understand fully (I've been there) how you feel here, it's important to recognize just how unhealthy (to both you and your relationship) and unhelpful (to solving your SSM) that the above attitude is. It not only makes you feel awful, both physically and mentally, but it puts your husband continuously on the defensive, braced for an attack, and feeling your scorn even when you *aren't* yelling at him --> and it drives him away. Even if he were to suddenly develop a high sex-drive, he wouldn't want to come near you right now. This is something that you need to recognize, and why Phase 1 is so incredibly important. It's not so much about forgiving or forgetting as it is about taking your own happiness, attractiveness, self-value, and self-confidence into YOUR own hands, and no longer dependent upon your husband's validation, affirmation, or behavior. This process will not only reduce your own anger/bitterness significantly and make you feel much better about yourself as a sexual, attractive woman, it will *also* make you much more attractive to your partner, and (hopefully) start to spark his interest in you once again.
Secondly, and just as difficult as the above, it's important to recognize that one of the probable reasons that your husband is having these online affairs is because they serve a need or desire in him that you have not been meeting for some time. I'm not condoning his behavior in any way -- he's made the situation far worse because of it -- but those women are stroking his ego, complimenting him, affirming his manhood and masculinity, and giving him an emotional connection in a way that he has probably not heard from you or had with you in years.
And believe me, I do understand this is a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario. Way back when, he started failing to meet *your* needs for physical and emotional intimacy, which in turn led you to stop meeting *his* needs for affirmation and emotional connection, and the whole thing spiraled out of control: setting you up to be that "angry, nagging, shrew" and causing him to withdraw into his secret on-line fantasy-land.
It's a cycle that has to be broken, in order for things to get better. And it requires at least one of you to be big enough to reach beyond the past, and beyond your hurt, in order to break that cycle and begin the healing process.
Finally, I'll add this. It's also important to recognize that a true low-desire person (someone who is just naturally that way...always has been) honestly has NO CLUE what it is like for a high-desire person to be caught in a sex-starved marriage. They truly don't understand what the fuss is about, why you feel so hurt, undesired, frustrated, and angry. They simply just don't get it: they have no way of relating to it. So you have to cut them some slack and recognize this. At least in the beginning of the developing SSM, they honestly *did not* know how much they were hurting you, and they certainly weren't doing it on purpose.
I'll finish by heartily applauding his decision to get his T-levels tested and to go on T-replacement therapy. It may take some time, but I sincerely hope that this starts to get the ball rolling. However, you have some serious emotional connection repair work to do first, before you can start thinking seriously about the physical connection.
Let me know if you think the above sounds applicable to you, or if I'm off the mark (based upon your single post above). Also, with luck, some of the ladies here will begin to chime in, with whom you can directly identify.
-- Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Would it be too personal to request more information on your disability, and the limitations it imposes on your ability work and/or go out on your own? Also, how long have you had these health issues, from the beginning of the relationship, or more recently?
I was injured at work when we had been married just 10 month, something that seemed to be a mild injury at first (sprained ankle) has dragged out over a decade with mutliple surgeries (over 19 to date) and now they will have to amputate. During the first surgery there was a 'medical mistake' that ended up with them giving me a fluid overolad to try to keep me alive... but that itself enlarged my heart and filled my lungs with fluids leaving me in ICU for a week on a ventilator. Presently, I have developed osteoarthritis in my other leg (knee) from compensation over-use and will have to have that knee replaced in the next 5 years as well.
In 2003 I woke one morning unable to use either hand and with the left side of my face paralized... my face still has little sensation but has full movement and my hands and arms are weaker than they used to be with little sensation but I can use them. The decision at that time was MS and my husband wanted me to go into a nursing home.
About three years ago I developed major blood pressure problems and tachycardia (both sinus and ventricular) and soon after developed major gastric issues making me unable to keep down any medications and able to eat only the blandest food. Medical tests show I have gastroparesis (vagus nerve damage, maybe MS related) and they are trying to find a way to deal with that and want to put in a gastric pacemaker, but like all the surgeries that I have on tap, they can't do anything until they can think of a way to manage my blood pressure and heart rate.
I have not been able to drive for 5 years (strange thing, they do not want someone who gets dizzy all the time due to heart rate behind the wheel)and due to chronic pain, mobility issues and nausea I am unable to work. That and there is not an employer out there that is willing to hire someone who might miss weeks at a time for surgery after surgery.
M- 11 y H- 40 Me- 41 D (1st M) 19 S (1st M) 17 First EA (w/OOW)discovered 2000 Third EA (w/OOW & phone) discovered 02/06 SSM (total) 3 1/2 years
Let me know if you think the above sounds applicable to you, or if I'm off the mark (based upon your single post above). Also, with luck, some of the ladies here will begin to chime in, with whom you can directly identify.
I did not have seperate bedrooms until after I found out about the first EA, I told him at that time that if he wanted back in the bedroom he had to be the one to make it happen.
That was not the end of any maritial relations... but once again, I was the one to innitiate them.
I tried asking him to 'play' with me online... to flirt and be silly, but he would tell me "I am not into that and do not do that anymore", only for me to discover that he was having another EA with OOW. I tried giving massages, getting seductive clothing and books on things to share. I even tried having us go to 'adult toy stores' to pick out things to try to spice things up... but he was never interested. (At least with me) He would use the things I tried to get him to try with me with strangers OL.
It could very well be that because I knew of his troubles with sex drive he went to others OL that did not know and he could live a fantasy life and I even discussed it with him, trying to understand.
I think the thing that hurt me the most, that still hurts the most, is that he is willing to try with strangers but will not and never would touch me in a intimate way...
How many of us have done things when we were not in the mood because out partner needed the contact or affirmation? I know I have in the past.
He swears he loves me and does not want to lose me, but he does not show it.
I know I did a major mistake after I found out about the third EA... he used to say "love you" all the time and "I love you" was something we said multiple times a day, but when I found out about that third EA (a much more involved one that was OL and on the phone) I told him that he was not allowed to say those words to me anymore because I did not believe them since he told the OW the same thing. He would have to show it before I would believe it and I did not want to hear the words because to me they were a lie. I also did not want him to touch me... he always wants to hold my hand and I would pull away.
It was just recently that I have healed enough from that last bomb that I have stopped pulling away when he wants to hold my hand, but I am afraid to allow those three important words again because I can't trust him. I actually have dreams quite often that he is cheating again and it really drags me down.
M- 11 y H- 40 Me- 41 D (1st M) 19 S (1st M) 17 First EA (w/OOW)discovered 2000 Third EA (w/OOW & phone) discovered 02/06 SSM (total) 3 1/2 years
I wasn't trying to make you feel attacked or put you on the defensive. I was identifying with you, and trying to introduce you to the process of repairing an SSM.
It's very obvious that you won't be able to do any repair work *until* you can get beyond your own intense anger and resentment. You have EVERY RIGHT to that anger: affairs are particularly insidious at destroying trust in an R...for a very long time afterward. Your instincts are probably quite correct in that his online & phone EA behavior is continuing today: trust them. As such, no real repair work can occur until *he* comes clean and stops such behavior: for good, and not just temporarily after he gets caught.
Have you tried to get you and him into either individual or couple's counseling? You are both in need of it: you for the stress of coping with your ongoing medical conditions and crises (along with the R problems), and him for his addiction to an on-line or phone "fix" with an OW. You could use the outside help.
Do something nice for yourself this weekend. Treat yourself in some small way, and shift your attention from him back to you for a bit. Be good to yourself.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Bagheera, I am sorry if I came across as defensive, I honestly didn't mean to. I took everything you said to heart and tried to place it all in context to my situation and am trying to change for myself and have been trying to let go of my anger... but I recognise that trying and doing are two different things.
My husband has always been open to the idea of seeing a MC but never wants to go if and when I get ready to set up appointments. I have tried therapy for myself (up to the allowable number per year for our insurance) and it has helped me some with 'seperating myself from the anger' and I learned to place the blame on him and not myself because I was on a very destructive path emotionally for a while where I blamed myself for everything. I just have to find the happy "middleground".
Maybe I have to try GALing... I am just so restricted in what I can do and can no longer do all the activities that I once enjoyed because of my physical restrictions... but I will break out my bath goodies (salts, bubbles and candles) and grab a book and drain the hot water heater and give myslef a long soak this weekend and just pamper myself a bit, I think.
Thank you, Bagheera... you have helped me by pointing out that I am being defensive and that is not the person I want to be.
M- 11 y H- 40 Me- 41 D (1st M) 19 S (1st M) 17 First EA (w/OOW)discovered 2000 Third EA (w/OOW & phone) discovered 02/06 SSM (total) 3 1/2 years
I'm going to be blunt. It sounds like if you were young and healthy you would know what to do. You would've likely already done it. But because of your health problems, your approach has been ... muted?
You have to have health care coverage. That has become the guiding factor in how you handle this situation. By necessity. So while your husband gives you little attention, you feel like you can't take any drastic actions that might threaten the security of health care coverage?
Am I understanding right?
At some point in your marriage, was there passion? At some point, maybe before the marriage, was he interested in sex? It would help if you sketched in a little of the pre-marriage relationship. Did you have pre-marital sex? Was this satisfying? Did he desire you sexually during this period? I'm struggling to better understand his position.
There are many situations in which men lose sexual interest in their wives. You mentioned he has a strong relationship with his mother. I have to wonder if that is playing a role here. Is there some confusion in his mind about you and his mother? Have you played a mothering role to him? Is so, it wouldn't be surprising that his interest in sex--with YOU--disappeared. This probably isn't something he could ever articulate.
If he preferred watching football to making love to you on your wedding night ... well that speaks volumes. He has to understand your desires, and even if he has little desire, he must understand that YOU have desires. And that HE has a responsibility in helping you find satisfaction. If we was unwilling to do this from the very beginning of the marriage ... wow.
Okay, now I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, maybe, he is so paralyzed at the idea of physical contact--and the possibility that he may fail to perform adequately--that he avoids all physical contact. An emotional relationship without physical contact would then likely seem attractive. That is, an internet relationship would be safe. There is no fear of failing to perform adequately.
It sounds like while his sexual desire is low he still needs and wants to make an emotional connection. He feels this so strongly that he lies to you over and over. But sex with you would not fulfill this desire because ... why? Because of the fear of failure?
Or is it because of the shadow of his mother? Is your own persona powerful enough that you evoke memories of his mother? There are many possibilities here.
If your husband seems to love you, there are chances to work through this problem. But finding a method that will get him to talk about this problem will be a real problem. Have you read SEX STARVED MARRIAGE? If not, start there. It will help you to understand what's going on in the mind of the low-sex drive partner and to then find ways of opening up communication.
I hope this helps.
me: 50 w (waw): 45 daughter: 9 m: 16 t: 19 bomb: 9/26/08 status: physical separation for 7 weeks, then work-in-progress R
Thank you for your thoughts... I read and re-read your post over and over and after ruminating on it I had a heart to heart with my H. Not about the mother issues or even the non-existant sex life, but instead about signals.
I told him about SSM and he says he will read the first chapter and if it makes sense to him he is willing to go through the book with me. I then asked him questions that might have been 'wrong', maybe giving him excuses for his EA, but I wanted to open the door that I know I am not totally blameless.
I told him that I was sorry that I had been 'pulling away' when he would try to hold my hand or get close... that it was instinct to protect myself... that I hurt and the first thing that would cross my mind was 'why would he want to touch someone that disgusted him' and I was trying to work on that.
He said that I confused him and gave mixed messages... some days I would even reach out to hold his hand and others I would cringe if he reached towards me. I explained that some days something would trigger a memory and I would get very low and on those days it would all come crashing back, but I would try to work on that and if I pulled away he needed to tell me, not to accuse me of pulling away or keep trying to push te issue but to just say ', you are pulling away'.
He said that yes, it was all fantasy online and on the phone... they had no idea that he had any testosterone issues and he could lie to them, that he could not 'fail' them.
I told him that the only way he ever failed me was not in not completeing an act but by refusing any kind of intimate contact beyond holding a hand.
I then took a deep breath and said "this is your one 'get out of jail free' moment... if you are still doing it you need to tell me now, because once we start working on things will be too late. I have been crushed over and over and if I discover later, when we are starting to rebuild, that you are still having EA online and on the phone I will not be able to handle it. If you tell me you are... then we can start with a clean slate, but if you tell me you aren't and you are there is no hope at all.'
He swore that he is not doing anything and I will have to give him the benefit of the doubt... not trust him, trust was killed, dug up, burned then scattered, but I will try to believe him.
As for the intimacy in our relationship... before we were married we had a very active love life, then we moved back into the area we are both from and it seems that we left the sex life behind.
He is now on testosterone replacement therapy, and while I hope that it makes him feel better it scares me at the same time because deep inside I fear that his EA will become PA.
Oh... one last thing I told him in our talk "I was always the one to innitiate things... if you want things to work then I am putting the keys in your hand. You will have to be the one to come to me, because I cannot risk another rejection. This does not mean that things can stay as they are."
Did I do something stupid by giving an ultimatum or giving him excuses or did I maybe let him see that maybe I am trying to understand his mindset?
M- 11 y H- 40 Me- 41 D (1st M) 19 S (1st M) 17 First EA (w/OOW)discovered 2000 Third EA (w/OOW & phone) discovered 02/06 SSM (total) 3 1/2 years
