Ok, didn't send it. Held my phone in my hand for bout half an hour before posting on here instead of sending it. He suckered me in with the most upbeat conversation we had for over a week, then dropped it in what he did with a clunk. I was trying to pick my words carefully to reply(I havn't even raised my voice at him for three months, let alone go off at him!), stuffed up by implying he was controling our finances, I meant his actions, such as wanting to sell our assets were controling them, but there was a toddler/door/finger situation in the background that needed my immediate attendance.
We were actually working our way ok through the delicate conversation well, I guess, both great tones, he started several sentences "you never let me, no I mean I didn't"...I guess that is a positive.
I was actually feeling great all day, my horroscope says starting today its a very tough relationship peiod for two weeks, completeion of many things. Might just have to go dark NO contact for two weeks to keep myself out of trouble!
Ok, moment pasted, conversation recalled, thanks for the support, again! Have 20 people rocking up in a few hours, back later
Hmm, so I guess my anger was due to the fact that I feel if I can get forward movement on our finances, I think that will be our ship steered into less stormy water. I thought this was an H issue, and left it in his court (but I didnt tell him this), as previously I did it all. H didn't mind me planning, he would say whatever, until the last couple of years, but has now found it controling. I understand why he would feel this and can address my side. H seems willing to try and work through this now, if I can find a way for us to do it. I have good planning skills, he is more a day to day person, especially now.
The main problem is how can we work on a financial plan together, if we are not supposed to be staying together? I need to do it in a real face saving, its just an option way. But I think I could use it to introduce the idea of "maybe we will stay together", although thats too much, somthing that indicates that?
I dont want to even mention "if we separate", so don't want to use any "we are looking at two path" type comments as pretending separation is not happening seems to help our conversations.
Can anyone suggest an easy way of what I am trying to say?
Once I have my opening statements, we should be able to work through the details. The sorts of issues I would like to discuss is medium term planning, we have a parcel of shares it would be good to sell now to lock in profit (H would like to do this). They are currently in my name, I do not want to sell them if we are uncertain in case things turn real bad and I need cash. H would like to sell them and pay down our credit card or similar. I would be ok with his purpose (letting him decide what to do with the moment 180 for me, not controling), but need to protect my own interests right now too.
Our finances are currently still joint, and will remain so for another few months until large assets are sold (that was plan 3 months ago when we were definately spliting). I was planning on just stalling in the hope we are in a better place as these talks easily become R talks.
But if I introduce a plan now for IF we were to stay together, I feel I might be offering a possible path we could eventually become reality with tweaking from both of us.
Would really appreciate anyones thoughts of help seeing trees and forests and helping me find a position on this I feel comfortable with. H is trying in this area, so I feel I should give him space (his smaller cash spending is a separate issue, and thats what I got frustrated with when really it was the larger planning side of things that stresses me).
You have not said what H wanted to buy, if it is a major purchase, or smaller than say his previous major purchases. But I think you are already seeing the forest through the trees based on your last post.
H's spending money is a reminder of past purchases, you know and understand why those happened, and it could seem to you like a backslide. I went through this sort of thing myself last month, because I was looking at his financial responsibility improving for a while, to then hear something really stupid. But as I thought about what he bought, I realized it was nothing major (although something just for him) and then I had to look at me and WHY was I so bothered by it. How did it make me feel. Similar to you I'm afraid but then I said but it was something so small. I decided to just sit and observe for a while to see if it continued or if it was a one time thing. I am beginning to think it was a one time thing, so maybe more of a "normal" sort of purchase.
I don't know if this helps but maybe...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Thanks for that. He did not tell me what he wanted to buy directly, but lack of disclosure means toy. It will come out. Not large (couple days pay) so can handle it in the bigger picture.
If he really is working through this and this spending gets less and less, I can handle that. But if its a second episode of Replay coming up, I want to draw a firm line asap? Of course, how to tell? My instincts say no alarm bells, a lot of teenager stuff at the moment. He was trying in the talk last night, but clearly looking to me for direction as well.
Do you tell your H where your head is at? I said I was focussed on one day at a time right now, living my best life possible each day. I do feel like I want to say hey don't think I will leave this window open for ever, we can work this out you know (yeah and a lot more sometimes too!), but I guess that will come up in time.
Winds picking up a bit of speed, how much is it us putting up the sails on our own boats too?
He's away for work for a while longer, so some much needed space for me to regroup.
Funny question. I actually, for the first time, have a really good idea where H's head is at. Yesterday anyway. He is in full blown depression but really making effort.
I still focus on one day at a time to a major degree. Because if H is in really crappy mood on day home, well I may have to alter plans to make self really busy or scarce to stay out of it and let him stew in his own stuff. If he is in better mood, wanting to spend time together or talking, then I have to take it more moment by moment, just in case the switch gets flipped in the middle. I do use opportunities that come along to share things with him, but I don't try to force anything.
I tend to be really affected by feelings of others and I have had to work really hard to learn how to control that. At this point for me, it is still something that is very conscious so I have been affected by the wind pushing my sails, but it isn't as bad as it used to be. H sees that. S sees it.
I understand the fear of more replay. But as we know, they bounce back and forth so it is to be expected. Do it mean that we will do this forever? No, probably not. But if the bouncing is faster, if the episodes are less, my feeling is that is a good thing. You will know if you need to draw a line, but it has to be a line for you and your comfort and safety, not a punishment or ultimatum to H.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Very very similar here Cat. I think depression hidden to some degree. Old mate says H will participate in sport again a bit, where as couldn't be bothered / not worth it few months ago. Very close SIL says she has never seen him withdrawn from her and family like this in his life. He has just shut down.
Very same home way of dealing with things at home, works the best for us too. I am also very effected by others feelings, one of my me issues I have been working on.
Spending patterns back to pre crisis levels still. Bouncing size not sure, my perception at the moment makes unbiasis cycles difficult to pick!
I`d love to chime in here as so much of what both of you have to say is so similar to my situation.
I really find standing back looking at what I see as H causing a problem can actually be ME causing the problem. EG the control thing. Now I don`t think I have that with money since H always had charge of how that was run(and has most of our savings in his name...) but letting go of that too has been liberating for me too.
If we S everything`s going to cost so much more so why fight over a few shares? I`m inclined to let it slide. Yeah, I know DB say watch your financial interests etc but I have a good job, I have some savings, there`ll be a settlement, I`m letting it go, to a huge degree.
Like you Cat , I`m easily swayed by other peoples feelings and I`ve had to let that go too.Focus on minding me.
And yeah, that`s a day to day battle.
I think the more we let go and they see we`re not the controlling demons they think we are the more they`ll grow up.L
Let them buy their toys, it may them feel better about themselves. Buy a few toys yourself while you`re at it.(preferably ones that vibrate...Lol!)
Its so damned hard to stay out of the crazy dance-they keep trying to suck you in-and that can really screw your perceptions.I think some of their behaviour is deliberately shaped to draw out the old hag in us-to get us back to those angry and/or begging days, to test out calm. Let it go.
I agree about the testing. It is up to us not to fall into the trap.
I also agree about the toys. I have bought myself some of my own. I am learning how to enjoy my life without worrying to much about tomorrow.
No, I really don't worry about the money too much either. In the grand scheme, it really is not a huge deal to me. I used to worry about it all of the time, but now not so much. I can't take it with me so....
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
I wish I had more money for toys for me! Of course, I am on this big decluttering kick so anything that takes up space at this point looks superfluous to me and I don't want it. I have spent more money on playing/entertaing the kids lately than I normally would, so I guess that's my release. Money is one area that I have had to let go in a huge way, and it is one area I do feel he is testing me in. Always. Cat, like you I have realized in the whole scheme of things there is so much more that is more important and that has helped (though if I think about it too much I worry :)).
SR, I can totally understand where you are coming from in all of this. To discuss finances like we have a future together may/probably will come across as pressure or some kind of R talk in a way, so it is a fine line to try to figure out how to go about it.
Yep, its not so much these particular shares, its that if we were to stay together we are going to need to talk through the whole area of finances in some detail.
As it was H called up today and suggested we could sell the existing shares, buy the new ones he wanted to (his prefered option) in my name (he listened and met my concerns) with us holding as 12 month option, (suggesting for today he considers we may have a future for 12 months, although likely to change completly tomorrow too!).
So a win win solution on a difficult topic, yet to be executed but feels like the door to us having a future together may have been opened again to just the smallest crack. We have a process that may help us to explore other topics down that path with H instead of me leading process (big 180)
I feel like I can now sit back and keep working on me again, but that I have got some of my needs met for the first time in ages.
I am sure the testing will continue on the smaller spending and other issues, thanks for the reminders.
I have spent more money on playing/entertaing the kids lately than I normally would, so I guess that's my release. Money is one area that I have had to let go in a huge way, and it is one area I do feel he is testing me in. Always. Cat, like you I have realized in the whole scheme of things there is so much more that is more important and that has helped (though if I think about it too much I worry :)).