Let it go. One way to catch a monkey is to put a nut in a box with a hole in it big enough for the monkeys hand to go thru and small enough that the monkeys fist won't come out while clutching the nut. The monkey won't let go and then it's doomed to be a captive. Squeezing the nut harder and pulling with all it's might won't work. To be free all the monkey has to do is let go.
Let it go. One way to catch a monkey is to put a nut in a box with a hole in it big enough for the monkeys hand to go thru and small enough that the monkeys fist won't come out while clutching the nut. The monkey won't let go and then it's doomed to be a captive. Squeezing the nut harder and pulling with all it's might won't work. To be free all the monkey has to do is let go.
I love this analogy. Is it really true?
I've heard variations for catching curious animals. In the Book Where the Red Fern Grows (I read when I was 9) The young boy catches a raccoon by drilling a hole in a log, just big enough to fit the hand in, drove several nails into the hole at angles and dropped a small ball of aluminum foil into the whole. The raccoon grabs foil and wont let go. The end.
AKA: "Ben the school teacher" --- Me:45, W:41 | Ds:10,12&14 | M:18, T:20 Me: MLC+PA+WAS+Separated 10/08 My Request to Reconcile Denied 7/09 W w/OM 6/09-11/09
Let it go. One way to catch a monkey is to put a nut in a box with a hole in it big enough for the monkeys hand to go thru and small enough that the monkeys fist won't come out while clutching the nut. The monkey won't let go and then it's doomed to be a captive. Squeezing the nut harder and pulling with all it's might won't work. To be free all the monkey has to do is let go.
For me, I just don't get how to exist in a space where I let it all go + move on with my life + work to save my marriage. These things seem irreconcilably opposed.
AKA: "Ben the school teacher" --- Me:45, W:41 | Ds:10,12&14 | M:18, T:20 Me: MLC+PA+WAS+Separated 10/08 My Request to Reconcile Denied 7/09 W w/OM 6/09-11/09
Let it go. One way to catch a monkey is to put a nut in a box with a hole in it big enough for the monkeys hand to go thru and small enough that the monkeys fist won't come out while clutching the nut. The monkey won't let go and then it's doomed to be a captive. Squeezing the nut harder and pulling with all it's might won't work. To be free all the monkey has to do is let go.
For me, I just don't get how to exist in a space where I let it all go + move on with my life + work to save my marriage. These things seem irreconcilably opposed.
I totally get that. I used the Stockdale Paradox to handle it. Two parallel paths that needed to be dealt with that were not in my control. You have to be ready to handle either outcome.
Quote:
In a business book by James C. Collins called Good to Great, Collins writes about a conversation he had with Stockdale regarding his coping strategy during his period in the Vietnamese POW camp.[3]
"I never lost faith in the end of the story, I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade."[4]
When Collins asked who didn't make it out, Stockdale replied:
"Oh, that’s easy, the optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be out by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart."[4]
Stockdale then added:
"This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”[4]
Witnessing this philosophy of duality, Collins went on to describe it as the Stockdale Paradox.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
In your own head, you've made this relationship with OM a bigger deal. You have it in your head, she's practically living with him. There may have been a time when things were going well, but I kind of get the impression, she's more into his social crowd than she's into him.
SHE TOLD YOU IN HER MIND SHE'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO END IT WITH HIM. She's doesn't want to marry this guy. But the more you push, the more you push them together.
There's a part of DBing that I don't think we talk enough about and that's timing. If I had tried to play hard ball with H in January or for a certain period this past May, I would be divorced now. We were not in a place to do anything but for me to back off and lay low low low. I didn't engage him in anyway during that time when I realized where his heart and head were at. And that was the point of divorcing.
Does that make sense?
I think right now, for your timing, you need to lay low. You need to realize this relationship is not her life right now. She is her own life. She is taking care of her and only her and then her children. If you want to be next in line, you better back off and let her live, let her dump this guy and then see what happens.
Continue to make your interaction with her calm and relaxing. That's really your only option right now.
RSF- checking in mobally here. One thing that stands out to me is that you take responsibility for her cheating on you in the past. I really have an issue with that. She chose how to handle her feelings and what actions to take. This is only relavent because I think part of your controlling and self-centered impulses may be generated from guilt and your desire to make things right for your own peace of mind. But your marriage and the past are now past, she is absolutely culpable for her cheating. Women have husbands who go away for years and stay faithful. Once you told her you were done and you moved on, that is different to me. But, while you were together, though it is big of you and essential to own your part, ultimately, she broke a very important covenant.
My H cheated many years back and I made what I think now was a misguided choice, in my effort to save my marriage, to assuage much of his guilt by taking too much responsibilty. Now, I see that I affirmed and kind of cosigned that I have that kind of power in the relationship and he never really stopped operating from that place. And even now, he has justified so many of his choices by adeptly connecting them to something I did or said. Even my 9 year old knows and states that people make their own choices.
My point is that if you can even the scales in your mind a bit and try to process that where you two are was a long time coming and must be lived out fully and lived through to get to a clean place in which she feels responsible for herself and you for ypurself and you create a new, fresh relationship with a sustainable paradigm.
I think that I might have been able to get my H back this time with the right amount and type of pressure but, I'm done being that person. I hope something I've said make sense. iPhone typing...
Thanks A&K. I'm going to give this some serious thought. I feel like you're on to something here. In my conversation with W yesterday I brought up something that's been a bit of a recurring theme for me. Actually there are two themes. First, I always feel like she uses double standards. I feel as though she holds me to a different standard than herself. Second, I feel like even though I am responsible for probably 75% of the problems in the relationship, she holds me accountable for 100% and never truly accepts her part. I feel like for years I've just wanted to have her share some of it with me. I tell her this but she says that she does share and does accept.
AKA: "Ben the school teacher" --- Me:45, W:41 | Ds:10,12&14 | M:18, T:20 Me: MLC+PA+WAS+Separated 10/08 My Request to Reconcile Denied 7/09 W w/OM 6/09-11/09
Wow. I can't believe I made it through all 35 pages of this.
It's good to seem some of the WAS side of things and that you were able to get past that and see what you were losing. I'm glad that you didn't let foolish pride stand in the way of letting your wife know how you feel. I believe it takes much more courage to do that than to just move on the with D and hope you get over it.
It gives me (and I'm sure many others) hope. Hopefully your wife will come around to the same realization that you've had.
Look RSF....for all intents and purposes, you have to proceed with the idea that your wife doesn't care who's fault it is anymore she just wants out. And the more you want her to validate you and take some blame here, the more she's going to say Screw it. I could not care less who's fault it is because it's all over. So STOP IT!
Do you want to know why you even start these conversations? Because you have some weird hope she's going to agree with you about something and if that happens maybe she'll agree to the big stuff, like reconciling. You're really going about this all wrong.
Stop R talks with her because right now, you're NOT going to hear what you want to hear.
You may have these conversations in the future, you may not. I just about fell out of bed when my H apologized to me. And even then he was apologizing for the pain he caused, not his actions. And I've come to accept, I'm never never never going to get that apology, where he admits his actions were wrong. Never. And because I accept this, I can move forward and we don't talk about it much anymore and I'm not waiting for any answers or apologies. It's done.
Now I just want to work on what got us to a point where he felt he needed to take those actions and put them into play so it won't happen again.
You do have some control here and you do have 100% control over you.
Stop starting these conversations/arguments you are not going to win.
I tell her this but she says that she does share and does accept.
Why don't you believe her?
Quote:
First, I always feel like she uses double standards. I feel as though she holds me to a different standard than herself.
Quote:
Second, I feel like even though I am responsible for probably 75% of the problems in the relationship, she holds me accountable for 100% and never truly accepts her part.
Quote:
I feel like for years I've just wanted to have her share some of it with me.
Lot of feeling going on. It's good to have feelings, do you understand why you feel the way you do? While women want men who "feel" they don't want a man who lets his emotions lead him. What do you think she meant when she said "she does share and accept" ?
Using words like always and never are signs of pessismistic thinking. Google - Martin Seligman and "Learned Optimism"
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
