My Intro: Thanks for Reading!

[Stronger]

I think you need to back off RSF. You apologized and that's all you can do now.

Back off and let her figure out this relationship with OM. I think if you leave it alone, it will play itself out.

[Steve McQueen]

The problem here is that you were so used to being in control cheating on your W, telling her you were done, etc. that you're not used to things being OUTSIDE your control now.

I taught in your first post you said your wife has had a couple of previous affairs?

Is this a "revenge" or "control" thing you pull on each other?

Why did she return after the previous affairs?
Why do you think she should feel she should return after yours?

SMcQ

[RedSoxFan]

"But the difference is I'm not feeling hysterical or out of control, I've just gone to a negative dark place about all of this."

Yes you are getting hysterical. It shows in your posts. The problem here is that you were so used to being in control cheating on your W, telling her you were done, etc. that you're not used to things being OUTSIDE your control now.

So the solution is simple. Stop trying to control things. Even with your D. Do you really think she listened to what you said or do you think she just agreed with you to shut you up? I think it was the latter.

For her you just need to establish the boundary and show her compassion, but let her make her own choice. She's going to do it any way. Even with her friend, rather than seeing her as toxic, have you tried seeing things through her eyes? If you did that and relayed that to your D, I think you could start wearing away the wall you built up between you two.

As for your W, you're doing the same thing. You tell her she can't go out with the OM or that he's a bad influence and it's pushing her into his arms. Your W and your D are exactly the same scenario and you're failing in both. There's your 2 x 4.

I'm not saying to ignore the problem, but I think you need to see things a little more from their POV in order to get compassion. With compassion, you'll get clarity on what to do. Forcing your will upon them ain't working.

I really appreciate this candid feedback. I like that I can count on being called out here while still getting support and an occasional (((hug)))

I think some stuff is getting lost in translation here. I definitely agree there are some control issues going on here though probably not quite as severe as it might seem from the last few posts. Regardless, there's plenty to work on there. I also have a pretty good relationship with my oldest daughter as well and for sure she's at the age where W and I must establish boundaries and sit back to watch how what we've taught her and the examples we've set for her pay out in her decision making. She is a great person and I know she'll do well.

As far as being used to cheating and being in control,it went something like this: We had let things go for a long time. I hit rock bottom emotionally, felt unloved, fell into deep depression and suddenly found myself with someone who loved me and respected me. I moved out, got myself together, ended the relationship, got counseling, healed, etc. Terrible thing, actually worst thing I ever did, but certainly not chronic.

I really have to do more work on the control thing to better understand where I am. Will make this primary tpic at next C appointment.

I wonder how fathers just relax and go with it when their children are taken to places that are unsafe or their life partner is lying in bed for the weekend with another man? I don't find these things to be easy...control or no control. I hope and pray that I can find strength to keep going and clarity to do whats right.

[RedSoxFan]

I taught in your first post you said your wife has had a couple of previous affairs?

Is this a "revenge" or "control" thing you pull on each other?

Why did she return after the previous affairs?
Why do you think she should feel she should return after yours

Previous physical affair was a result of my not being present physically and emotionally. I was running a start-up business and was basically absent husband and father. She came clean and I forgave her as I should have. Later was EA and for similar reasons.

I'm OK if she just agrees to consider reconciling and agrees to start a dialogue with a counselor. I have made so many profound discoveries and changes that I just want the opportunity to begin showing her that I can be the husband she wants and needs. First I need to give her enough reason to believe and so far the process to do that seems like a very big challenge. Watching her with OM while doing so feels nearly impossible in my heart even though my brain wants to do it.

[RedSoxFan]

I think you need to back off RSF. You apologized and that's all you can do now.

Back off and let her figure out this relationship with OM. I think if you leave it alone, it will play itself out.

Backing way off Stronger.

[MrBond]

"I wonder how fathers just relax and go with it when their children are taken to places that are unsafe or their life partner is lying in bed for the weekend with another man?"

Now you know how your W felt.

What have you been doing outside of the DB R stuff for yourself? And I don't mean dating other women. Have you been GAL?

[RedSoxFan]

"I wonder how fathers just relax and go with it when their children are taken to places that are unsafe or their life partner is lying in bed for the weekend with another man?"

Now you know how your W felt.

Not really. I put her through a living he!!. The fact that she would even speak to me again after that speaks volumes about what a wonderful person she is. It's hard to imagine what I could ever do to make up for that.

What have you been doing outside of the DB R stuff for yourself? And I don't mean dating other women. Have you been GAL?

I haven't been seeing other women I have been taking decent care of myself. Actually, I have spent the last many months focused solely on my own healing and well being...physically and emotionally. I had begun to plan how I was going to try to reconcile with W when I found out she was with OM. That's been almost two months ago. I spent the first month in a pathetic heap at her feet and the second month at a distance being obsessed with how to win her trust and win her back. I'm still taking good care of myself, getting out some,etc. but unfortunately I haven't gotten to a place where I'm not thinking about her when I fall asleep or when I raise my head in the morning.

[Stronger]

All of that takes a lot of time.
I think you have to back off and let that relationship run it's course.
Nothing is over yet RSF.
Hang in there.

[RedSoxFan]

All of that takes a lot of time.
I think you have to back off and let that relationship run it's course.

How do you/I do that Stronger? I see how Strong you are and what you've accomplished. Every day I think about her with OM and my heart just hurts. Even if she agreed to reconcile I wonder if I could? It's one thing if she stopped seeing OM. But it just keeps going. How much damage is being done every single day like this? I'm not even sure if I should have agreed to stop hassling her about seeing OM in exchange for holding off on D. Is that love? is that strength? or is it cowardice? Why would she even agree to it? Probably because she doesn't want the hassle or the financial burden. Maybe I should put more pressure on.

[Coach]

Let it go. One way to catch a monkey is to put a nut in a box with a hole in it big enough for the monkeys hand to go thru and small enough that the monkeys fist won't come out while clutching the nut. The monkey won't let go and then it's doomed to be a captive. Squeezing the nut harder and pulling with all it's might won't work. To be free all the monkey has to do is let go.