Getting Un"Stuck" - Giving My Burden to God

[K4D]

I think you are making excellent progress. I'm impressed to see her coming along so well. She isn't quite where you want her yet, but these things take time. She is coming along and you are doing good. I'd say just keep doing what you are doing. You know what to expect and you know how to react to it when it happens. I think it all sounds very positive.

Kevin

[MrBond]

Thanks Kevin.

[Eskimo Nell]

Hey Stuck
I'm interested in what you wrote her ... seems to have hit a chord, yes? Can you share - evidently not word for word but I know that I am interested in the 'picture' that you painted. Also, did you do this after having been dark/semi dark for a while?

You seem to be doing OK, Stuck.

[sandi2]

Hi Sweetie.....I went back a few pages on the thread to catch up a bit. So, guess I will just express some thoughts as I go, if that is okay.

I think I remember discussing a long time back, about the possibility of your W having some serious hormone problems, and you said she either wouldn't go or the doctor she went to said she was fine...can't remember which. I know I talk to a lot of H's on the board about this, but I am living proof of how badly a woman can live for years and not even realize what poor condition her body is in--and how much she is suffering b/c she doesn't have what nature meant to produce. She becomes so accustom to how she feels that it becomes the norm. She thinks that this is how she is "suppose" to feel at her age. Not so! The lack of certain chemicals in her body will cause her to be very depressed and there will be no changing it b/c it is not a mental attitude for her....it is physical! She can't help it anymore than she could help getting diabetes as a kid. (Now I am talking as though this is the case for your W.....about the low hormones) Stuck, I lived for YEARS in that condition and just accepted that that was the way women was suppose to feel as they got older. I did a lot of things trying to get out of my depression, but nothing lasted very long and most of it was "acting as if" anyway. The doctor told me that there would not have been anything outside of medicine that could have helped me. Some people think it is awful and that it meant you were crazy if you had to take meds for depression, but of course, that's not the case. It took a lot of "tries" before finding the right one, but if I have to stay on it the rest of my life in order to feel like life is worth living...then so be it. If my brain can't produce the chemical it needs to have a sense of "well being" and I can't get out of bed every morning....then I'll turn to help with that just like I would for any other medical problem.

But, since I was telling you all that stuff a while back.....I have found out more things about myself and you have probably read it on other posts. The doctor took tests and said that I showed like a zero in the sex hormones!! He discussed other areas that I was extremely low also....but I figured that particular one might get your attention. I wanted to cry the first time my body begin to actually feel some softness & warmness toward my H. Why did I want to cry? B/c I realized how many years we had wasted not enjoying our MR with each other and me thinking that I didn't have normal feelings like a W should have toward her H......and it was all b/c my body wasn't producing what it needed. It took me experiencing what I "missed" before I actually relized what I had missed. Does that make sense?

Sorry....I get too carried away with that subject b/c it has become so important to me and b/c I see so many threads here on the board where the W sounds as if she may be suffering with the same problems.

Okay, about talking of other women to your W. I doubt men see this like women do....since we see EVERYTHING differently...lol. It doesn't matter "who" the other female is.....sister, mother...coworker...doesn't matter, the W does not want to hear her H praise another woman. She wont't tell him that! But I'm telling you that! So listen up....lol. I won't tell my H, either. B/c it "sounds" terrible. But, if women are honest, it is just how we are made. If we have any low self-esteem problems...then it is magnified much more. I doubt I can explain it very well, but it is like we feel as if we have failed to be every woman on earth...tied up into one person. Crazy, I know...right? But, whenever we hear our H praising another woman for "whatever"....cooking, singing, career,....doesn't matter....we think in our hearts, "I wish he felt that way about me." This is a woman's mind who has low esteem and very insecure. It isn't what you said or how you said it as much as it is "her" that she has a problem with. She doesn't like herself. It is hard to get away from yourself...and when you don't like yourself...that's terrible! I could talk for hours on this subject, but I'll just say that unless you've experience this.....there is no way you could fully understand. You can, however, try to learn what to avoid and what to do. I bet your W needs a lot of affirmation due to her problems. Again, I think I talked about this to you a long time back. Hope I am not boring you to death.

Do you know why she rolls her eyes, Stuck? B/c some women do not know how to accept a compliment. It isn't against you, sweetie. It is "her" and how she feels so bad about herself. So, don't take it personal b/c she hasn't even thought of you taking it that way....unless your email made her realize that. The best thing for a H is just don't carry on about another woman. Heck, I remember being jealous when my H would talk about what a great cook his mom was. I was so low that he couldn't say anything "nice" about any woman that it didn't make me feel useless. I would never have dreamed of telling him how I felt, b/c I thought it was so rotten of me. All women are jealous of thier H's, and should be...in a healthy way, but this that I'm talking about is a differnt type of problem. So, do you see where your comment here shows that you didn't understand how a woman sees you talking about other women?

If our S's were bothered by the comments, they should have said something. Especially since I talked about guys I admired the same way.

Women do not see it the same. Also, what you said next...blew me out of the water b/c it has NOTHING to do with how your W feels about you praising other women.

There comes a time when the WAS has to take personal responsibility for what they did or didn't do. But rather than admit their wrongdoing, some find it easier to run away than face up to the problems.

Stuck, I hope you know you are one of my "favorites" here on the board. But you are still very angry and I see this so much in things you say. I'm not telling you that you don't have a "right" to be angry, okay? I'm saying that I am concerned about you bringing this particular comment up in a lot of posts I read. You are correct in what you say....but I am worried that you can't let go of it. I think your W sees this resentment and that it is adding to her depression. JMHO. I have wanted to mention this for a long time, but didn't want to bring you down. All of this work you have done has exhausted you and if you are carrying this resentment around....I don't have to tell you what a cancer it is.

..."You need to get some self-esteem dammit! Now leave me alone."

Ah, a man with a gentle touch!

I agree with what AAK told you. Also you may want to use the word "admiration" in place of respect. Means much of the same, but for a W, she needs to sexually amire her H...and respect him.

It seems your W responds the most when you are ready to walk out. You can't keep doing that, can you? So, it appears that if she doesn't get out of her funk and she goes back to the level she was before the email....I'm thinking she only responds to a crises. You spoke about that possibility. Right now, you aren't sure what to do to bring about the right kind of crises that she would respond to in a positive way. It is a risky business, but it is either that, or continue to live in limbo. So, I see two possible things with her. She may be testing the waters after being in MLC, or she doesn't have enough emotional energy left to stay on task trying to work at the M. That second one would go back to the hormone thing. A little part knows she wants to work at the M, but her body won't cooperate and soon she is too worn out to continue...so back to limo land.

It is really strange that she did not say anything about your email, but it is as if she made up her mind to start working and decided against bringing the email up. I think you're right, she would just tell you to screw it and she'd leave.
If I were you right now......I think I would give this a short time to see how she continues to "try". Remember Stuck, she is working to just get to the place of wanting "to be willing." This is a hard level and easy to fall back into what felt more comfortable for her. So, as long as you see her trying...I'd wait. However, if she quickly returns into her shell, then you may want to produce a "crises" for her.

When she acted the way she did when going to bed and asked you what your problem was.....what would have happened if you had said something to the affect of..."Well, I do have a problem alright..and I think I should go take care of it". Then you go touch up a bit, put on good smelling cologne and then you turn and leave the house. Maybe you are out an hour or two before coming back home. Of course you could go anywhere, but what will she wonder in her mind? The first thought would be that you are fed up with no sex and are going to get laid. She knows she isn't giving you sex and that it has been forever since you two were intimate. She knows that you have "reason" to go find something ....or rather "somebody". The point is not to tell her that you went to get your car filled with gas...or (whatever you can think to do). Now, being a man, you probably are wondering wouldn't she feel like I described earlier? No, not the same thing. Before, you were being specific about another woman and how you "admired" that woman. Oh, if you went to another woman for sex....she would certainly have emotions...and may be very jealous, but this particular thing I am suggesting would not bring about the same category of jealousy...and besides, she would know it was about your "needs" and not your admiration toward another woman. Is all that clear as mud??

I better go for a while b/c this has turned into a book!

[MrBond]

Hi Sandi,

I hear you loud and clear. You are right in that this is a process that she needs to go through.

There are times I sit back and I can literally see the gears in her head turning trying to figure things out. When she's especially quiet, I sense that she's actually balancing things out in her head and I do see more moments of clarity than not.

Like this weekend, she spent all day Sunday cleaning the house from top to bottom. I mean everything. She joked around with me and talked, then there were times that I noticed she would look off into space, then I would take that as my cue to leave her alone. She even cleaned off two pictures I put out on our dresser of just the two of us and put them more prominently in front.

It seems to be an internal struggle that she's dealing with. She knows she has my support, but I know that if she's gone tomorrow, I'm not going to miss it. Her thoughts are out of my hands. She sees me going out and she stays home all the time. She sleeps alot and has even cancelled her gym membership which she was so proud to get a year ago.

I think reality for her is setting in. I'm just making things as comfortable for her as possible without actually doing anything but giving her space and time. I really do see why they call it a "fog".

[Kettricken]

For the record -- not all women, even those with self-esteem issues, get that unwrapped when their husband praises another woman. A lot of it is context (how much does he praise the wife too?) and delivery (what are the respective enthusiasm levels?)

It's a great mistake to habitually self-censor or muzzle oneself, especially if positive expressions are being muzzled.

[RedSoxFan]

If you get a chance...I'm feeling a bit stuck!

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1820958&page=33

[MrBond]

I'll check it out.

[Hope4us]

Ok Stuck, Thanks for stopping by my piecing thread. I just got caught up on your sitch.

Your W had an A with her boss....does she still work for him? If she doesn't work directly for him, does she still see him at work on a regular basis?

How long ago did the A end? Are you sure it's over?

If your W still works for or with OM you're not dealing with a MLC. You're dealing with someone who's emotions are constantly being F'd with because those "love chemicals" are constantly being stimulated by thoughts of OM. It will take a LONG time for her to invest in the marriage, that is if she ever does, as long as they're still working together. Heck, it took my W over a year to come out of the fog of her A and that was even with OM 250 miles away and what she says was no contact.

I have more ideas when you answer those questions.

H4U

[MrBond]

Hi H4U,

Thanks for stopping by. My W still works with her former boss on occassion but not directly under him any more. The A has been over for about a year, but it was basically an EA.

I do know it will take awhile for her to invest in the M with that in mind. She has been doing more things than before in terms of doing things with the family.

Lately she's been having alot of periods where she's daydreaming. I don't know about what, and I don't ask. I gave her a number of chances to leave and said I was done, but she's still here. Although it's getting harder because sometimes she acts like a total b*tch with her mood swings and all.