First Piecing Thread

[Hope4us]

I agree Didi. It's so frickin nice.

But I'm not sure about the details stuff. It might surprise her what I want to know. I'm not talking the details most people probably want to know. I know what two people do when they have sex....

But there are some things that I NEED to know, for my own sanity. Like where was OM's apartment? It drives me crazy when we're driving in a part of town that I've never been before and W makes a comment about something there and then we'll drive by an apartment complex and I'll see her staring out the window....If I knew where that was, I would avoid the area like the plague. Theres just a few other things like that that I need to know.

Here is a copy of a letter I saw on another website. It's written to the wife of a guy who's W had an affair and how it made him feel when his W would answer his questions with "It doesn't matter, it's over". It is exactly how I feel. I still haven't decided what way I want to go yet, but this letter sum's up how I feel. It's like everything I knew my whole life is now in question, and without knowing some details, it's like there's this great big hole there.....


Joseph's Letter.

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he know by now that I love him? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the year that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that year and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives will ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, “what's the difference”, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe your actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

There it is. I would imagine that every person who's spouse betrayed them, no matter what condition their marriage was in prior to the A, and has since reconciled with their spouse feels the same way.

I know I do.

[Sara]

My H and I started reading the book, After the Affair by Janis Spring when we were piecing. It is written from the perspectives of both spouses. We found it helpful. Took turns reading chapters and did some of the exercises. Then we went to Retrouvaille. That was the best! I felt like a tadpole changing into a frog -- the relationship grew legs and learned to walk on land!Check the website for dates and locations, www.helpourmarriage.org. It was the weekend that changed our lives, even though we walked in the door trying to reconcile. It strengthened us in so many ways.

[Hope4us]

Thanks Sara, I know you're a big proponent of Retro, and I would love to do it.

I've asked W 3 times since D Day if she would attend, and each time she's refused, but that was then, this is now. She's so different since the fog seems to have cleared that she might be willing now.

I think I'll broach the subject some time here soon and see what she thinks. Maybe frame it in a "we seem to be communicating a lot better now, but I'd love to take it up another notch and I think this could help, what do you think?' kind of way.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Sara]

Yes, that's good. It will help you with the "after" feelings that you have to deal with. It is not unusual for the person who had the affair to feel like, "it's over. Let's not think of it." But that doesn't help the other spouse. It does need to be dealt with, not just the affair, but the things that went wrong in the marriage. Retrouvaille can lead you through these feelings. It is better than MC because it is led by couples who have successfully healed their marriages and moved onto to happy, rewarding, loving relationships, showing you the way through it. It is not bringing up the issues and talking about them for an hour, and then calling time and leaving you with unresolved feelings. At Retrouvaille, things do get resolved.

[AliSuddenly]

Hi Hope,

I havent posted before to you, fellow piecer, but wow your post really touched me. That letter is how I feel.. although I have accepted things to some extent on face value and am pushing less and less for the "details".. but I find myself wondering about the holes in exactly the same way. I looked on a GIS map today wondering which of the houses in the aerial shot was ow's. Funn how such inconsequential things weigh on our mind.

My bf is EXACTLY the same as the man in the letter.. dreadfully regrets it, wants to forget it entirely, wipe his memory, never speak of it again, to him its now nothing and what do the details matter? So he too answers with, it doesnt matter now.. I am here with you now.. its all in the past.. as though that should be sufficient an answer. But it just isnt is it!

I think time is the answer, I had an EA once and we already pieced for a year after that and eventually his questions died down and we were fine (until his Dad died and he had his depression and subsequent breakdown!!).. and I imagine in time the need to 'know' will fade for me also.

Al xxx

[Hope4us]

Thanks Ali. I know my W wants to forget it happened. I hear it in her voice when we talk now about other people we know who are having affairs. I hear it in her voice when we're discussing a friend of hers who is having martial difficulties and the possibility that this lady's H is having an affair.

And I really understand her wanting to forget it ever happened. Who wants to deal with something that horrible that they've done to another person who they now realize they love?

But all that is still about them. And that's what I struggle with. What about helping me through your betrayal? Like the guy said in the letter I posted, I'm here because I love her. Why else would I put myself through this? Not because I love pain, but because I want us to be whole and have the kind of marriage we BOTH want, but if she can't/won't deal with that, how can we have the intimacy in our marriage that is right there for the taking?

I recognize what I want to know now is a lot different from what it was even 6 months ago. But in order for me to make sense of the last two years of my life, there are some things I need to know.

I think I posted this on another thread, maybe even yours, but it's like an episode of the Twilight Zone where you wake up one morning and everything you KNEW to be true the last 24 years of your life is now in question. What you KNEW to be true, now you don't know. I'll tell you how F'd up it is, as a father, I now question if S21 is mine. I know S17 is, he looks just like me, but S21? He looks like W. So how do I know he's mine? Because she says so? Ummm...2 years ago she said OM was "just a friend" too.

This is what I struggle with. And I know I'm going to have to talk to W about it when the time is right, but if she continues to say "it doesn't matter", am I ok with that response?

[kat727]

ok, but would you love him any less? Why go looking for trouble? I mean sure you are dealing with all of this but digging is just going to cause more problems with healing now if not later.

My biological mom cheated on my Dad. He walked in on them when he forgot something he needed for work and went home to get it. I have never met her, he got sole custody which was really reare back in the 60's. Later when I was in junior high we were doing "blood typing" for a class and when I told my parents mine, my Dad was like no way is that what your type is!! So maybe I am not his. I don't know and my family tree is a bit of a mess anyway, who cares? I love the family I have and while I may have some curiosity about it, it is a can of worms I am leaving alone.

I think you should do the same.

kat

[Hope4us]

Kat, you misunderstand what I was trying to say. Or I didn't explain it very well.

No, I'm not looking to find out if he is my son. I KNOW he is. I was just trying to point out the crazy stuff that goes on in your head when your world is suddenly torn apart and scrambled and then all of the pieces thrown in a heap and you're supposed to make sense of it.

It was just an illustration of how one day you knew everything in your life and it all made sense and the next day EVERYTHING is in question. And for me, to make sense of my life I need info so I can piece it together.

Does that make sense?

[kat727]

Yes, I think just say 9-11 and that would make sense. The day that you thought you knew up from down and we all found out how wrong we were. Sorry to maybe put those two different things together but really a very good analogy.

kat

[Hope4us]

That is a good analogy Kat. Probably the same way the "Greatest Generation" felt after Pearl Harbor or when JFK was shot.

Last night I got home from my work trip and W and I went to our bar/grill. We were having a discussion and W was contradicting me on a point even though she had just got done saying "I don't know anything about this". Well, in the past I'd have sat there arguing until she finally gave in and admitted I was correct, but not anymore. I said to her "I'm not going to say anymore because I don't want to argue". W got quiet for a few minutes and I broke that silence with a funny comment and the rest of the night was fine.

I'll admit I was in an wink, wink kind of mood, but W had a really bad week at work and was tired and I was kind of tired too from the long week away from home, so about 11:30 I told her I was going to bed and goodnight. I woke up at 1:00 and W still wasn't in bed and of course all those stupid thoughts go through your head when you've been in a sitch like this (is she talking to OM on the phone, is she on the PC?). Completely irrational given the state of our marriage, but not irrational given the past couple years.

So I came down stairs and there she was, curled up in a ball on the couch, sleeping away. I touched her and she woke up and I asked her if she was coming to bed, which she did. I probably should have let her sleep, but...

Got up this morning early to get S17 off to the ACT test and I would kill to get some more sleep, but the dogs won't let that happen so I guess I'll have to drink a gallon of Red Bull so I can stay up tonight and watch our beloved Buckeyes THUMP USC.