I am amused that the significant step she made to stabilizing the marriage involved picking out a beautiful new piece of jewelry. All the men on this site should take note of that.
Doesn't amuse me. Hits home. Those rings mean something. Note how many of the men on here notice and lament the days that their W takes that beautiful jewelry OFF.
Our engagement ring band broke years ago before The Troubles. I told him about it, hinted around it many times, but no one noticed but me that the symbol of our relationship was broken. One of the first things I did when I moved back home after leaving was to take that ring MYSELF to a jeweler and made a new ring from it. Coach and I talked about this just this weekend. We talked about why it matters that WE have this symbol in good repair. TO ME ... it is how I show the world that I belong to a family that holds these rings as a sort of crest - this is OUR ring - the jewelry my children will remember as belonging to their parents - and a TREASURE they will want to preserve.
Wedding rings are more than just bling.
Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
That was well said. My W has been wearing her anniversary band, but not her engagement ring, since the bomb.One of her friends who recently told her H she wanted a D (eerily similar) is doing the same thing. Maybe this means something to her. Certainly not coincidence.
And, yeah, I DID notice when she stopped wearing her engagement ring.
If you have the time, would love to hear your input on my current stuck in lomboland situation. Coach has been a great help.
Sorry for teh hijack Thinker. I follow your thread, and I'm happy you are making progress.
Journaling: Finally back at home after lots of family travels. The last day was very stressful. For reasons that I have never been able to fully determine, Mrs. Thinker is projecting a ton of anger and resentment toward my parents. We spent a couple of hours visiting my family on Sunday, and it totally changed her mood. During the drive home she made some angry comments about my parents, which put me in a bit of a bind - do I validate? or do I stand up against her (IMO unreasonable and disrespectful) complaints about my parents?
My Dad is a grumpy, messy old man, and my mom has trouble expressing what she wants and therefore ends up being passive aggressive, but they are great people. Why do they bother her so much to the point of making her angry? I can't tell whether it is just something internal that she is projecting onto my parents (the loss of her own parents, resentment toward me, etc) or if there is something there between them that I just don't see.
I have asked my W about this directly in the past, and it has always just come out as unspecific angry bile eg "Your father treats me horribly, he's always critcal of me, etc..." - my internal response "I was there. I saw it. He barely said anything. He was sometimes grumpy and critical - but he is like that with EVERYONE!!! He complained about the mess left by the kids - don't take it personally! He loves the kids, but isn't used to the noise and mess"
One thought, in some of her past "The R will never work, you will never change" rants she said "You can never change, you are a product of your upbringing". I didn't really think about it then, but she may really be combining anger and resentment about me and our M with anger and resentment toward my family.
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Other than the brief arguments we had over my parents, everything has been quiet and boring. No R discussions of any type. We're both keeping busy. We are back at home, and getting life back to normal - kids start school, back to the gym for me, etc.
10 days to Retro
Last edited by Thinker; 09/08/0902:05 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
My W also is holding some animosity toward my folks, which isn't helping me either. My parents have always been there when we needed them. Recently they have been a bit stand offish because they don't want to interfere, plus they don't know what to say. W has stopped emailing mom. So my folks love W, but are trying to stay out of our problems, but are still there for the kids. W thinks they are alienating her and has been making remarks to me about it. So, I am in a similar bind. Do I remind her that they have been good to us in the past and still love her, or stand by W and say they could try to contact her more.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
I have asked my W about this directly in the past, and it has always just come out as unspecific angry bile eg "Your father treats me horribly, he's always critcal of me, etc..." - my internal response "I was there. I saw it. He barely said anything. He was sometimes grumpy and critical - but he is like that with EVERYONE!!! He complained about the mess left by the kids - don't take it personally! He loves the kids, but isn't used to the noise and mess"
Don't discount this. You cope with your Dad your way. Your wife doesn't want to be criticised or treated poorly by your Dad. Especially with you standing by and watching. (I got this T-shirt.) You wife isn't EVERYONE. This is part of the "You weren't there for me" chapter. She wanted you to stand up to your Dad and defend her.
Just because your Dad treats everyone poorly doesn't make it right. This makes her angry when he treats her poorly and you don't do anything. She doesn't feel loved by you or your family. Make sense?
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
My W cares a lot more about what my parents think, do and say than I do. To an extent, that probably makes sense. I notice that when we were at my MIL's over the past week, my MIL was also grumpy and annoyed by the mess and noise of the kids (very similar to my dad). I felt more concerned about the mess and noise than my W did.
Another example: for a holiday earlier this year (I think it was valentines day) 3 cards arrived from my mom - one for me, one for S6, and one fro S4. Mrs. Thinker was upset and fussed and fumed that she had been left out, that she hadn't gotten a card from my mom, that it showed my mom didn't care, etc. The card for Mrs. Thinker had been delayed in the mail and arrived the next day (to a chagrined Mrs. Thinker), but it shows how sensitive to slights from my parents she is. If it had been me that was "forgotten", I don't think I would have even noticed.
Last edited by Thinker; 09/08/0902:48 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
At some point, you both need to accept that your wife's perceptions are her perceptions. There is no cosmic right way to view her relationship with your parents. She has her view, they have their view, and you have your view. So it is better to agree with her than to disagree over it. That doesn't mean it is your job to fix her relationship with your parents, but you should not tell her that her perceptions are wrong.
This is an important hill for you to take, Thinker. Take the time to fully understand how and why she feels the way she does and then help her by getting in the way of any further slights from your parents. And that includes slights that YOU do not perceive as slights. Have her back. Show her that SHE is YOUR FAMILY.
We dealt with this BIG TIME. Turns out it mattered a lot more than either one of us ever dreamed it would.
Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Don't discount this. You cope with your Dad your way. Your wife doesn't want to be criticised or treated poorly by your Dad. Especially with you standing by and watching. (I got this T-shirt.) You wife isn't EVERYONE. This is part of the "You weren't there for me" chapter. She wanted you to stand up to your Dad and defend her.
Just because your Dad treats everyone poorly doesn't make it right. This makes her angry when he treats her poorly and you don't do anything. She doesn't feel loved by you or your family. Make sense?
Have to think about this Coach,
There are only a few options, none really great.
Option 1: Stop / minimize contact between my parents and my W. This is not really an option for me, since my parents would just blame my W for the non-contact and their response would worsen matters.
Option 2: Ignore the issue completely or try to get my w to just accept my parents as they are - imperfections, annoying warts and all. This has been my approach in the past, and obviously is not working.
Option 3: Use boundaries, open discussions, etc. to get my parents to change. My first thought on this one is "Yeah right! Like that's going to happen...!" My dad is grumpy and critical because he is not a happy person. My mom is passive-aggressive because she's repressed her own wants for so long. I don't see either of those base facts changing.
The only real hope is in Option 3 to get my parents to change specific aspects of their behavior.
How did you address this Coach?
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Sara I agree with the whole perspective thing and would add that trying to change her perspective is basically saying her feelings are invalid.
O, Going back to what coach said, I think you have a huge opportunity to stand up for your W and pull off a major 180. Not saying start a war in the family but a simple "don't treat my wife that way" would be incredible.
_________________________ Me-41 W-39 M-15 yrs T-17 yrs D-12 S-9 S-8 B 5/08 S 1/09
