Hey Hey lets play nice. I am sorry OT offended you Lanz. Like I said before we are all here to help each other. We all have different life experiences. I take a little about what OT says. And take a little about what Yoyo says and a little about what rob says and all the slapping Saffie gives me and use some and toss the rest. We all have different tastes and turn on's One thing that OT did say and I have experienced it myself was that Two people can say the exact same thing and get opposite responses...even now once in a while wife lets her guard down and lets herself relax at least in her mind sexually. Just the there day I was talking about doing yard work around our house and how I needed to do some over MIL house I told her:
I am going to do the work around here first and then I will do you mom.
She smiled and said “you’re going to do my mom huh”
I am on my way to the book store to see if they have PM but my desk is starting to look like a marriage counselors with all of these “help your marriage” books Lanz, I do not think that OT was accusing you of “seeing” OW. But after talking with some ladies here. Looking at “stuff” on the computer is just as bad to them as seeing another woman. That is one thing that wife brought up in the beginning of all of this. She said “well you look at stuff on the computer” I told her I can hit the delete key and it’s gone. Can you do that with the OM? Yes Lanz women see things a little different than us guys do.
Take care everyone it is going to be a great day
XOXOXO Doc
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
I wasn't sure what you meant about two people saying the same thing and getting different responses. But FWIW:
"you may want to look this over so that you know what you are in for tonight,"
is not at all like:
"Here is a little “Ice breaker” for when I get back. Read the directions so you can teach me how to play,"
Lanz,
Lots of guys use the internet to jack off. Some look at porn, some look at "live" sites, some chat with women, some video-chat with women, some flirt with women at AFF, some eventually meet women for in person sex off the internet.
You said you were turning to the internet for your sexual satisfaction. I have no idea what that means. It could mean porn, it could mean video chat. It could mean AFF. WHATEVER it means, unless W is fully informed as to the content and extent of your activity, then you are working against a healthy, vibrant M with authentic, intimate sexuality.
Of course, if you are using a little porn and your wife knows about it, and it is not creating your own little sex life from which your W is excluded, then its probably fine. If jacking off to a little porn is the ruin of a M, then probably 99.99999999% of Ms in this country are doomed, lol.
Plenty of women are probably fine with their H's viewing porn, maybe some with "live" porn, few with anything else.
But, that is neither here nor there. My point was that I don't think that your desensitization approach is likely to get you to a sex life that you want and that your internet activity is counterproductive, just how counterproductive depends on exactly what you are doing and what your wife knows. *I have no idea what you are doing and what your wife knows. So, I'm certainly not trying to suggest that you are or are not interacting with OWs in any way through the internet.* Merely, I was gesturing at the point that if this is the case, it is even more damaging.
As for the other bit, all I can tell you is that from watching these boards for many years, talking to many women, reading many womens posts in SSM, and my own experience in a SSM, the hesitant, asexual, desensitization approach to try to get a hot sex life is not going to work. Indeed, the more asexual it is, the more sibling-like things become, the less likely any kind of decent sex life will arise. The husband becomes like a brother who spends a lot of time in the bathroom with a magazine rather than a lover. The sad thing is, most guys who wind up in piecing seem to follow that approach. Few women I know find the "innocent and accidental side-of-the-breast swipe during a back rub" anything other than annoying. While guys who get their wives to tolerate it think they are making progress. The progress there is that you de-sexualize that action. Not really progress.
But please take none of this personally. I'm really simply trying to help doc see some of this a bit. I have no idea about your sitch. I've not looked at your thread. I based my comment on what you posted here. And I do think it is sad. It is sad to hear about two people struggling so much to find each other. It is sad to hear the pain between your words. It is sad to hear about your sexual lonliness. I am sorry to hear your pain. I am glad to hear you have hope. Only time will tell how your M heals and where it goes.
some look at "live" sites, some chat with women, some video-chat with women, some flirt with women at AFF, some eventually meet women for in person sex off the internet.
That is definately not my thing.
Again I start my sentance with "Sorry" but you may have the experience, knowledge wisdom and the female perspective, and you may write in clear, strong and forthright way but the more I read the more I take it the wrong way (see above).
Anyway not to stretch things out, if I cut through all that was written two points are clear to me.
Originally Posted By: Oldtimer
If jacking off to a little porn is the ruin of a M, then probably 99.99999999% of Ms in this country are doomed, lol.
Originally Posted By: Oldtimer
I have no idea about your sitch. I've not looked at your thread.
Anyway thats my last word on it(maybe not yours) as it is all about helping Doc on this thread.
There are allot of women that look at porn also. Heck my wife looking at Dancing with the stars to see all of the good looking guy is not much differance. PORN is not the issue here. If my wife said. 'Doc it really bothers me that you are looking at that" I would stop...Funny thing is that most women (I think) are upset with men looking at pron becasue the THINK they can not compeate with that skinny little thing....When I do I can't stand those little tooth picks...I would look for something with a little MEAT in them. ANYWAY………….. I found the book. I am going to start reading it tonight
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Quick hijack: Oldtimer, you describe so many of my feelings. If I'm dealing with a man like your exH, what can I (stress on I) do? Would giving him the PM book work? Any advice? I'm piecing with him after having an A. Trouble before the A with sex, and nothing has changed. I will start my own thread soon, but thought I would see what you have to say generally.
PM is a great book. Unfortunately all that knowledge is hard to "implement" when the other involved party is ignorant... (not having the same knowledge)
Unfortunately all that knowledge is hard to "implement" when the other involved party is ignorant... (not having the same knowledge)
This is the problem I have had with all of the books I have read. BUT.....I'll try another..
Update I have started reading it. Seems like so far if I could get wife to read it with me it would be better. Yes I see her and I in the couple except not really sure about wife. She has a hard time expressing her feelings so I can only assume what I see in the OW is what she is going through
Doc
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
You cannot hide your true emotions now, even if you try. It's like they are posted on your forehead and everyone can see exactly how you are feeling. But still, your sudden emotional outburst may surprise others. You feel it coming and know that it will encourage someone else to express his or her feelings, too.
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
WOW..Ok I am only half way through chapter 2 but yes I do recognize "problems" Now only if the next chapters help me fix what is wrong with me. It may be too late to help this marriage but I know it will help ME with my next partner if it will be my wife or not.
One thing that really stood out. The last conv. W and I had she said: "All you want is sex, I don't have those feelings anymore" In the book this woman kind of said the same thing. The author pointed out "she tells her husband he's afraid of intimacy and that he uses her, but she acts like there is something wrong with her” Sound familiar?
And the author tells the husband: When your wife doesn’t make sexual initiations or declines yours…you take it personally, like is says more about you than her. But you tell her it’s about her, not you”
Sound like the Doc?
Last edited by Dr LOve; 09/06/0905:08 AM.
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
