WAW Using God

[pigskin]

Your wife really wants to know where you stand on your marriage and commitment to her. Being indecisive and making threats that have no consequences makes you look like the weaker man. Asking her to "behave herself" is subjective. You want to be very clear on what the line is and what the consequences will be.
"I have decided that I will not share you with another man. If you continue to have any contact with him then I will ask you to move out in x# of days." This isn't about her as a person but what behavior will be tolerated. No contact means just that - no e-mails, txts, calls, or "I just ran into him and we talked."

Unfortunately, and I've mentioned this before, I don't have any ammo in my gun with regard to hard line threats. All things being equal, I could make a statement that I want her out if this continues. But she has physical and mental issues along with stresses at work that really preclude me from kicking her out. I don't think it would help the situation, and most likely would make it worse.

There is a perfect storm of stress on her from all areas, and I'm really struggling with trying to come up with something that would have an impact short of putting her stuff on the curb. I'm sadly not a cut and dried DB case, in my opinion.

Maybe trying something different in being a hard ass regarding all non essential work contact with this guy will have an effect. I don't know, but I think I'll try. As I mentioned before, the OM is pretty much a similar messed up person with the same stresses as well, and my wife sees herself as being a comforting, supportive person to him. I just have to get her to stop thinking that she is responsible for helping him when it is to the detriment of her own family. At some point this guy has to sink or swim on his own. He's a big boy. He needs to start taking responsibility for himself and not lean on her.

[Coach]

You still don't get it. You will not put her on the curb. She will choose it. I'll take a bet that she won't choose it because you standing up for yourself will be a magnet to you.

No boundaries = unhealthy relationships

Google "boundaries in relationships" and do some reading

You are not the first guy here to offer up all the objections you just listed why setting a boundary won't work for them. It's not about the OM or your wife. It's about you doing the right thing. Unless your wife is disabled to the point where she is mentally incompetent there is nothing morally, legally, ethically, or emotionally wrong with asking her to move out. You did not say you would divorce her.

At some point this guy has to sink or swim on his own. He's a big boy. He needs to start taking responsibility for himself

You change for yourself and see what happens.

[pigskin]

OK. I'll read up on that stuff. Thanks coach.

[Coach]

Thinker posted this over on Orich's thread. It would help you to read Thinkers thread, he had a lot of the same struggles you are dealing with. His sitch has turned for the better after he took a stand for himself. I asked him to check in on you.

Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
Quite frankly the only time I have had success was when W realized what she was losing.


What exactly were you doing to make that happen? And what was her reaction?


Hi Orich,

Remember that your W has to realize 2 things.

1) She has to realize WHAT she is losing.

For this you have to BE a strong, independent, happy, fun, loving person. She sees this when she sees you being happy and fun with your kids. She DOES NOT see this if you are cold, or rude, unhappy, angry, sullen. She DOES NOT see this if you are talking to her about how she is hurting you. She DOES NOT see this if you allow her to walk on you without standing up to her.

This is not something that you can fake. You have to BE strong, happy, independent, fun. Think Action.

2) She has to realize that she IS LOSING you.

Any time you pursue, allow her to walk on you (facebook?) without standing up for yourself, etc. She does not feel like she is losing you - you are still there. You need to separate yourself from her.

The trick is balancing these two - how do you separate yourself, stop pursuing, and let her realize that she is losing you, without being angry, sullen, rude, or otherwise being a person she would want to leave.

The ONLY way to do this is to become truly independent; to become happy, strong and independent without needing her.

[Thinker]

Hi Pigskin,

I can only back up and reinforce what Coach is saying based on my own personal experience.

I have not read your whole thread, but I believe I was in a similar sitch as yours. Still living together, but in a long, slow downward slide toward D. I worked on myself in all the usual ways (GALed, got in shape, PMA, etc). But my W was backing steadily away, and I would repeatedly discover that she had had contact with OM again, etc. Each time I would get angry and tell her to stop, and she would say she would (to stop the argument), but then start again, etc. I felt trapped between the choices of either detaching and ignoring what she was doing, or becoming controlling and hyper-vigilant. Since my goal was to avoid D, I stayed away from that topic, and she would scare me by bringing it up.

I finally realized that a) this is miserable and not how I want to live at all, b) I'd actually rather get D'd than continue like this and c) if something didn't change the long downward slide was going to end up in D anyway.

I told myself (and really meant it)
1) She has already D'd me. It just hasn't formally happened yet. Since I am therefore already divorced, the thread of Divorce no longer exists.

2) If I react the way I want to, what is she going to do? Divorce me? (oh wait, she's already done that...)

This occurred over a period of serious introspection...which was followed by action.

The next time(s) that OM incidents occurred, I told her (clearly and calmly) (Note, these are paraphrased versions of longer discussions - not direct quotes)
- I have changed. I am no longer willing to accept this.
- I am not willing to share you with any other man, in any way
- As an adult, you are able to have any relationship you want with any man, but you can not do that AND be married to me at the same time.
- If you do not cease all inappropriate contact with other men (inappropriate being any relationship you would not be willing to openly conduct in front of me), then I will contact a mediator for us and a lawyer for me and we can start divorce proceedings.

After this, she was more willing to work together, more open in our MC sessions, etc, but then...

...She tested me. She got back in contact, she refriended OM on facebook, etc.

I repeated the above and said that the next day I would be contacting the mediator and the lawyer.

The next day, I gave her the contact information for the mediator I had called, told her I had an appointment with the L, and let her see me going off to that appointment.

And at that point, things changed. She apologized. She cut off contact with OM. I felt empowered to lead more in our R overall rather than just reacting. Things are not "all better", but the slow downward slide in our R has become a slow upward climb.


The thing is, however, that I couldn't have done that as a trick or as a tactic. It took me 8 months of DBing until I reached the point where I was clear enough in my own mind to see that what I was doing was not working and to be detached enough from the outcome (D very likely) to be able to do what I needed to do.

I had to get to the point where, although I clearly did not (and still do not) WANT a D, I am no longer afraid of it and (in fact) find it a preferable alternative to continuing with the M as it is.

Hope it helps.

[pigskin]

Thanks thinker. I'm actually in the middle of reading all of your threads now and seeing many of the parallels to my situation.

I don't think I'm at the point yet to go "all in" with my chips - divorce is still an incomprehensible result to me. Until I get past that, any threats I make will be hollow. I'm Catholic and she knows I'd never file for divorce, which really, really limits me. Perhaps I can convince her that I WOULD, but she is a very smart woman and that would be tough to do.

I'll keep reading your threads for more info. Thanks for checking in on me.

[tristan]

Hi pigskin,

Listen to Thinker, he really does know what he is talking about. Your sitchuation is very similiar to mine. I had all the same concerns you had, but now wish I would have taken more drastic action earlier. Now my W is moving out anyway. Hope all ends well for you, but you do need to be strong.

[pigskin]

Journaling:

Well, I pretty much went all in during a discussion yesterday. Put my foot down on all contact, explained how it is disrespectful to me, our home, our kids, and our marriage. I demanded that it all stop now. W was emotional during the talk, I was passionate and firm, but not emotional.

Basically said it stops now or you go. You either stop this now and rejoin the family or stop sitting on the fence and get a move on with what you are going to do. My tolerance for this behavior is at an end. Then directly said, "What are you going to do?". W said she needed to think about it. I said its been since May. What more do you need to think about. Then she mentioned about wanting to learn more about minimizing the effect on the kids. I said I'll get them and tell them the truth. She didn't want that. Wants to explain in a kid friendly way together.

She talked through tears about how she doesn't want to try anymore, she's tried for years and now she's done. I said the current situation is unacceptable, if you are done, then file. She was pretty upset and mouthed the word "OK".

Later in the conversation I said something to the effect of "why quit and give up on tomorrow, there is so much potential here if you just get past the wall you've built up and seriously commit to making things better."

I said get rid of your relationship with the OM and commit for us, and the family. You think about it. Left her with a good night kiss. She came to bed later, we didn't speak and went to sleep. She got up in the middle of the night because she couldn't sleep. No more discussion, but did say goodbye before going to work.

I really hope this helps. The OM is likely done with his relationship and is planning to move out. That will be an easy spot for her to go to if she leaves. But I don't think separation will be in the cards. If she leaves, she might as well just file.

It's all in the Lord's hands now. I hope someone can comment on whether I did the right thing or not, but I took to heart the comment that "you can't be a good soldier until you realize that you are already dead". I think I realize I'm already divorced and its time to end this situation that is stomping all over my dignity.

[Orich]

I'm not an expert by any means, just ask some of the people here. But it sounds like you did the right thing. I wish I had your courage. I am trying to work up to that level when I can have a similar talk with my W.
Good luck, and I will pray for you and your family.

[pigskin]

Thank you Orich. I am keeping track of your situation as well as we are in a similar boat with the exception of my wife having an OM.

I don't think I had any courage at all. I just lept off the cliff and am hoping to build my parachute on the way down, as the saying goes. I don't know what will come of it, I just know that tolerating the behavior of my wife is NOT the right thing to do as a person who has respect for the sanctity of marriage. I KNOW I'm in the right. I KNOW my position is God's position. That CAN'T be wrong. What happens next is all up to God. I'm just going to keep praying, (and I'll slip in a word for you as well). Good luck, my friend. If I can report back positive results that help you as well, it will mean a lot to me.