I Like scifigirl's post, too. I really do. And from this point on I will make a better effort. Sara said to detach for the shirt run. I will use that as a stepping stone, and continue earnestly detaching after the weekend. Tonight I came home from a cub scout meeting I went to straight from work. I told her what we did because it concerns our son. The only other thing I brought up was that I passed a fatal motor vehicle accident close to our home and asked her to pray for the victim. About the cub scouts. I volunteered to be my sons den leader. This means more distraction for me! I will be doing den meetings, monthly pack meetings, day trips, camping, etc. And I will be doing it all with my son. I am very happy about this. I am going to follow my boys all the way up to eagle scout if they want to go that far. Thanks for all your concern. I think I have reached a turning point here with all your help. For the few minutes I talked to W tonight, I was able to look at her slightly differently. Hopefully this means I am on my way.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
Hi Orich, I think I have to agree with Sara about all of this. I was one that stayed after you about detaching, but I am not convinced that you know what it is even now. I know you are "trying" but you are still asking if you are suppose to ignore your W and you aren't. You aren't suppose to be "cold" toward her or snub her in any way. I am not sure you get that yet. I don't think you really know how to detach without being one of these ways and I feel that your W is doing to you exactly what you are doing with her. She doesn't know or understand what is behind these strange actions of yours and all she has is her "imagination" b/c you aren't communicating with her, right? Just like she isn't communicating with you and you are "thinking" and "wondering" about what she's thinking all the time. The two of you make me think of my H & me. Our biggest problem was communicating. I can tell you this....it can kill a M, so both of you better learn to open up and talk and listen to each other. The retreat will be a good place to begin, but I just hope that you won't swing too far the other way in trying to do what you think is detaching.
She said she didn't want you hurting her any more.....so what did you do to hurt her? I bet you don't even know! Did you simply accept the blame and didn't find out what you did to cause her pain? Maybe I missed that post. You just seemed so eager to please and yet didn't really talk it out.
Detaching is a mental attitude, Orich. You can go out and get a life until you fall dead with a heart attack and not be detached! On the other hand, you can sit in the same room with your S for twenty years and be as detached as a D couple! It is all in your attitude. So, you can save yourself some trouble by doing all this stuff trying to stay away from her--and just get it right in your mind.
What is she doing all this time you are away? Is she hurt by you not spending time with her or not talking to her? You have been so confused by all this detaching talk here on the obard, and have tried so many different ways to do what you "thought" was detaching that I'm sure she is hurt by your behavior. Anyway, what's done is done about that.
How would you act around a kid sister that was like a little pest? Would you ignore her or be cold or unkind? I doubt it. I bet you could have an idea how to treat a kid sister. Would that give you a better idea of what everyone is talking about? BTW, don't feel bad, b/c you certainly aren't the first and won't be the last to not get the hang of detaching. Hang in there until time for the retreat and then like Sara said, pack a different bag to take with you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, You are right, I am having a hard time understanding what true detachment is, but I believe I am closer to understanding it than I have been before. We don't communicate, and that is both our faults. She won't open up and I don't press her to. That is one of my hopes for the weekend, that we both open up and really talk about our feelings. I do believe that if we can do that we have a shot, because deep down I think she really does love me, but there is too much stuff going on to let her show it. Actually what she said was that she didn't want to hurt me. On a couple of occasions she has said this, although she hasn't said it in some time. However, I did hurt her and I know it. We did talk about that. I completely owned up to my mistakes and how hurtful they were to her. I have done as much of a 180 in that area as possible, and she even recognizes it, she just isn't sure that it isn't to late for her to regain her feelings. What is she doing? Well, she goes out with friends about once a week. Less than she did a month or so ago. When we are home, it's all about the kids. When they go to bed, she usually gets out the laptop and either does bills or work she brings home. I ask her to sit with me and watch TV or a movie, but the answer is always no, so I stopped asking. When I do try to talk to her, I get single word answers or half hearted responses. So, I am not cold to her. I have not initiated conversation lately, but have always answered as cheerily as possible when she starts talking. When I do have to talk to her about the kids or something, I use my normal talking voice. We both need to communicate better. Much better. It has been a problem with our marriage from the beginning. I know that now looking back. Hopefully we learn to better communicate during this weekend, and hopefully it isn't too late.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
O, Two things really helped me move towards being detached (emphasis on towards). First, the understanding that some days my W is just going to act in a less than favorable fashion. My IC helped me get through that with a little phrase "that's just how she has to be today." Secondly and more importantly for me, was to relax my dream of the perfect family. I was very much into the concept of being married. It was always my dream to be married have a family and grow old with someone. When my W decided she was not on board with the plan I was devastated on many different levels. The anger came from not only loosing my W but from having my dreams shattered.
Anger generally comes from a collision of expectations and realities. Before I could do anything I had to get a grip on the anger. Anger and love can not live in the same space.
_________________________ Me-41 W-39 M-15 yrs T-17 yrs D-12 S-9 S-8 B 5/08 S 1/09
Sandi and C-Bart make good points. There are different levels of detachment. What you need is to detach from her bad moods, as C-Bart recommends, but stay involved for the times she does open up or feel friendly. She is frightened of Retrouvaille too. No one knows what to expect there. And people are afraid of being vulnerable with a spouse who has hurt them in the past. You and she are in the same boat. You just need to learn to row in the same direction.
This is a good point. I am angry right now. Not knock down-drag out angry, but angry. I can put that aside for now. I am trying to look at my W the way you describe, "that's just how she has to be today". Last night I was able to look at her a little differently, more like a roommate. The only time I thought I might lose that thought quite frankly was when she bent over to pick up something she dropped. This is one area where I have troubles detaching the often. The sexual attraction. Regardless, I also have those dreams, and she is the one taking them away from me.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
And people are afraid of being vulnerable with a spouse who has hurt them in the past.
How true. And the amount of time that it takes to heal is different for each individual. I've heard it mentioned that it takes one month for each year of marriage!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
The sexual attraction is something we can not underestimate. I'm glad on some levels that my W moved out so I don't have to see her everyday. Specially if you go from active to zero overnight. Ouch.
Your dream can still be a reality just tweak it a bit. You have two great sons that represent the core of your family. From there you have three options; being a strong single dad, having a healthy reborn W, or finding a more suitable partner. You're not giving up your just taking some of the pressure off yourself and your M.
Anger is not necessarily something you can set aside as it has a tendency to jump back in at the worst times. You have some time on your hands. Work on that aspect of your life. Attack it head on until you can come to piece with it. Read about anger, were it comes from and how to get through it.
_________________________ Me-41 W-39 M-15 yrs T-17 yrs D-12 S-9 S-8 B 5/08 S 1/09
Antlers, I know I have hurt her, I can only hope that she can heal and that she can open up to me again. Bart, I want nothing more than to be a good dad to my boys. I really hope that I can end up giving them the life I had growing up in a happy intact family. If it doesn't end up that way, I will go out of my way to make sure I still do a good job for them.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
