They are not reasons SP, they are events that happened. You probably did a million things like that over the courss eof the marriage
Hmmmme one of mine would be :
Negative , abusive attacks on xHs personality and abilities resulting in the destruction of his self esteem. Hence I brought him to my low self esteem level and sooooooo felt much better about myself.
People dont leave people they love because the wont bring home the big bucks.
If Mrs. SP felt ugly and didn't even want to see a picture of herself, she was experiencing insecurity that was damaging your R (duh)...but it was not out of viciousness that she didn't accept your compliments or advances, it was out of her experiencing an unpleasant sensation because it didn't match or hold true. AND, some of this can be due to her insecurities, issues etc and some due to your delivery or non-delivery in other areas of the R...
Though my instinctive reaction is to say, "Yeah, this is probably right," at the same time these things I described were happening she was working out more, getting new clothing styles, showing cleavage (first time ever), getting Botox.... all the stuff that signals "OM! OM!". So if she was feeling unattractive, it wasn't uniformly unattractive to all male-kind. Certainly not to Signore Schmuckatelli...
I have a theory about this (surprise) and not just as it applies to Mrs. SP -- I think it's a recurring pattern with WAWs. It's like when your mom tells you you're pretty, smart, the best girl in the class. It's nice .... but it means, not a lot. It's your MOM. Bias much? Similarly, when your long-time husband gives you the eye or the drool, if YOU don't believe you're sexually attractive/beautiful, it can mean ... not much. Either .... "well, he HAS to say that stuff; if he's gonna have sex it will be with me, so he has an agenda here" ... or more subtle. With certain personalities, it seems like people who get too close to us (immediate family members, long-term spouses) become so closely identified with our own self-concepts that WE we attribute our opinions about our bodies,etc, to them. Thus the "something off" feeling referenced above.
Not healthy, woah nellie, by a long shot. But possibly, informative. I wonder if the above explains why some women who experience a Schmuckatelli subsequently become more willing to believe the "Hel-LO Nurse!" from their husbands, because now that opinion has been confirmed by an outside so-called "neutral party" with no commitments.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
And I was pointing out that (a) it's a comparatively constrained set of us who are talking openly about sex and (b) we all are not a necessarily representative subset of the married/divorced population at large -- for one, we're all a lot more open (within the limits of the term imposed by anonymity) and feelings-sharing than many (most, I would submit) of our fellow Americans.
Boy howdy, you shoulda been on the SSM board during its heyday ....
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
It's precisely because of situations like you described with your son and your wife during/after delivery and in NICU, and because of Themselves, that Mrs. SP gets extra points in the final decision. Not because she merits them necessarily, and if there was abuse it might negate all of that--but because in giving Mrs. SP that handicap (think golf here, not wheelchairs), you're acknowledging that there's another entity involved here.
As in my previous to @aliveandkicking, my instinctive reaction is to agree with you, hoosiermama.
But that doesn't mean I don't find it Immensely Irritating that, yet again, Left-Behind has to do That Which Walkaway Wouldn't.
Because obviously there was no such handicap where MR. SP was concerned.... "Too little, too late."
Hey, I never said it was fair. Life ain't fair. Jus' sayin' that if you have it in you to rise above, take the high road and all of that--and you can still make that connection with Mrs. SP--then you'll sleep better at night and look back with, perhaps, less regret. That is, in the absence of all other factors which cannot be predicted at this point. But--and this is the biggie--you have to be able to do it without resentment. 'Cuz that's the big poison. Certainly the one I could never overcome.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
Wasn't there for her emotionally/supportly when her mother died.
2. Didn't get high-paying job and liked having low-paying job ("didn't share her values")
3. Slept in office instead of in bed so as to wake up at 2-3 a.m. to get work done
Okay .
1. Not there emotionally for her or support her.
So for all we know she told you a milion times how she liked sex, and you just did not suport her or understand her because you were not there emotionally nor listening. I doubt not being there for her mum dying was the one and only time she felt abandoned or not listened to.
2. Would not take high paying job.
So you left the responsibility of providing for the family on her shoulders? Did you ask her everyday if she was tired of carrying that load SP. So you got to enjoy every minute with the kids and she worked. Do you think she was ever envious of that luxury you enjoyed. Does not matter if having kids was just your idea SP. She carried and delivered them and I am betting loved them as much as you did. She probably hated that you had this AMAZING relationship with the kids , that she was unable to build due to her commitments.
What was your last one ? Oh yeah !
3.Slept in the office so she would not be disturbed Did you discuss this decision or were you just being thoughtful ( unemotional and unsupportive ) . She worked all day, maybe she wanted company in the bed at night. Even in sleep you feel your partner beside you. And this was a job that paid less than you were worth.
And then she was unresponsive when you did decide to come to bed. How dare she find Signore Stumellu after all that you were doing for her.
Maybe next R you could work a job that enabled you to share all the good things in your life and that includes being in the marriage bed
I say this from the prospective of the WAW that i was .
People dont leave people they love because the wont bring home the big bucks.
Oh for feck's sake. This is why, every time she Tells The Story (by her own admission), Mrs. SP says, "I hate to Tell The Story because my reasons always sound so trivial."
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1. Not there emotionally for her or support her.
So for all we know she told you a milion times how she liked sex, and you just did not suport her or understand her because you were not there emotionally nor listening. I doubt not being there for her mum dying was the one and only time she felt abandoned or not listened to.
No, she never told me A SINGLE TIME how she liked sex -- in fact, she and I are having this debate online even as we speak. Here's her most recent e-mail on the subject:
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I think your bedroom comment is unfair...The ONE TIME I expressed those wants and desires to you....
I didn't listen to her. I did the usual ADD thing of listening without "hearing" -- that's true. And she absolutely felt abandoned, by Item #3.
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2. Would not take high paying job.
So you left the responsibility of providing for the family on her shoulders?
See this is why you have to go back to the originals. Mrs. SP, 10 years ago: "I think it's great that you got this offer. Now we'll have the flexibility with the kids so we won't have to have a nanny."
Mrs. SP, 5 years ago: "I so hate my job, but I so love my job. But there's no way I could do it without your flexibility."
Mrs. SP, 9 months ago: "Why couldn't you work like I do?"
So you make sense of it.
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3.Slept in the office so she would not be disturbed Did you discuss this decision or were you just being thoughtful ( unemotional and unsupportive ) . She worked all day, maybe she wanted company in the bed at night. Even in sleep you feel your partner beside you. And this was a job that paid less than you were worth.
Again, for the nth time, yes I asked about it, and no she said she understood, and by the time she'd changed her mind and didn't like it she also did like it because she liked having the space to herself. And when we did sleep in the same bed, which we did, I would snuggle up next to her while she read -- she always pointed out, "Now you understand I'm going to read" -- and then she'd get irritated that I was snuggled up and would say something to the effect of, "Gaak, it's so hot -- move over."
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And then she was unresponsive when you did decide to come to bed. How dare she find Signore...after all that you were doing for her.
The date night was her idea. The planning was her idea. The nights that we would do it were her idea. If I initiated, it was either (a) too late (pre-9:00 p.m., please), (b) wrong time of month, (c) too hot, (d) too cold, or she was (e) too sore from the gym, (f) too tired, or (g) too into the book. "But tomorrow, for sure."
It's not like I came creeping into the sack, Nosferatu-like, and tried to seduce her. But you'd know that, polly, if you spent more time paying attention to people's sitchs and less time projecting yourself and yours into them.
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Maybe next R you could work a job that enabled you to share all the good things in your life and that includes being in the marriage bed
Sure, maybe I could. Maybe I could give up 10 years of graduate education and stop writing books and stop giving professional talks and stop being invited by foreign governments to address their staffs and start delivering milk or flowers. Or maybe, just maybe, I could have a "next R" with a woman who means it when she says, "I think it's great how your job gives us such flexibility."
But you're probably right. I should probably give everything up. After all, who needs an identity when he's got a potential Walkaway Wife, eh?
Mrs. SP, 10 years ago: "I think it's great that you got this offer. Now we'll have the flexibility with the kids so we won't have to have a nanny."
Mrs. SP, 5 years ago: "I so hate my job, but I so love my job. But there's no way I could do it without your flexibility."
Mrs. SP, 9 months ago: "Why couldn't you work like I do?"
So you make sense of it.
Just relating here because I think it is a huge issue to my H that I didn't "work" more...I think if you look at the time frame, the perception of working w/flexibility changes as the kids get older and seem to require less of our attention. I felt like H and I had a deal and that I was respected for being mom first but looking back, I see that he felt that with the kids older, I should be bringing in more money AND that I was not living up to my own potential.
So, that is me projecting...but I think there may be some truth to it. And, even though I have judged him for his "values" or lack there-of, perhaps it was more of an issue than I was willing to acknowledge and respect and seeing as I am now going to be forced to step up and create a career, maybe (one hopes) fulfill something of my potential...perhaps, in hindsight, it might have been worth considering sooner while in the marriage.
No, she never told me A SINGLE TIME how she liked sex -- in fact, she and I are having this debate online even as we speak. Here's her most recent e-mail on the subject: Quote: I think your bedroom comment is unfair...The ONE TIME I expressed those wants and desires to you....
I didn't listen to her. I did the usual ADD thing of listening without "hearing" -- that's true. And she absolutely felt abandoned, by Item #3.
She never told you a "single time" but she is currently referring to the "one time" she expressed her desires. And wow, the "usual ADD thing of listening without 'hearing'"...that was very much my sitch with H...communicating my needs was an exasperating experience and in the bedroom, bordering on humiliating...I just made that connection and remembered how alienated I felt.
But more importantly- holy cow, how'd you get derailed into a convo about this with her now???
