I'd say that when I find myself in a muck, I have usually forgotten the understanding. When I remember it, I find my way out. I can forget it for a really long time sometimes.
I have absolutely no problem with side conversations. If everything in this thread related to my situation it would probably get pretty boring.
Quote: What if you took a similar approach with initiating sex? When you try to get something started and your wife doesn't respond or moves away, you say something like "Well, it may not be working out this time. We can try again another time." Calmly and compassionately said, of course. And don't respond to any angry outburst from her or attempt to get the sex argument started. That will just be a way for her to try and get the issue to disappear or deflect responsibility all back on you.
The message you want to send is "I'm not angry or hurt or blaming you. But sex in our marriage is not going to be going away. We are going to deal with it."
I actually think that's a great idea, if done right anyway. I think the key is in being compassionate - showing that I have at least some understanding of what she may be feeling inside. And if I could remain calm and relatively upbeat, I'd be communicating that her rejection didn't suddenly make me mad at her or resentful (like rolling over and "huffing" would). I might even add a kiss on the cheek or something similar just to reassure her that I love her.
Quote: Oh heck. What if you just said this to her? "I'm not angry or hurt or blaming you. But sex in our marriage is not going to be going away. We are going to deal with it."
I agree with what you both seem to have eventually concluded - that this would not be the thing to say upon being rejected. I'm afraid it would come across as the same old thing she's been hearing from me all along. I think she would hear "I'm hurt, I'm blaming you, and you'd better fix this!"
Quote: I've found that I get closer to my goal more often by putting my feelings to the side for the moment, yes, sometimes even minimizing them. Then I focus on the other person, their feelings, and their needs. My turn comes in another conversation OR I find that addressing their feelings and dealing with their needs results in a change in the behavior that is causing me problems.
That's pretty good stuff MPT, and it's actually a pretty good description of the approach that I'm trying to take at the moment. I believe that I now have a better understanding of my wife's feelings and needs than I've had previously, so I'm trying to turn my attention towards addressing them.
Quote: Damn, woman, you're smart. Quick on the uptake, clear, concise, and empathetic. Maybe we should get married.
This is exactly what I think about you.
Thanks for the ego stroke. It feels good.
I must now go prep for the birthday slumber party that is happening at my house tonight. 7-year olds. Don't think I'll be feeling too "cranial" tomorrow morning.
Sorry, it's the Okie coming out in me. Not much to read on the old bulletin board tonight so I'm basically killing time. MPT wrote something recently in another post that I wanted to make sure I could find again, so I'm copying it here:
Quote: Have you tried presenting the issue to your wife this way:
"It's not 'just sex.' My love for you increases when we have sex. When we don't, the love I feel for you begins to diminish. I start loving you a little less and less. I don't want the love I feel for you to die. You may not ever understand it because that's not how it works for you, but it does for me. That's not going to change. So it's not just about some itch that needs scratching. It's about keeping my love for you alive."
I thought that was pretty good and I may want to use it sometime. Maybe taking that approach would help my wife understand how important having a vibrant sexual relationship with her is to me.
The cover story in the USA Weekend insert in the Sunday newspaper (which I assume that many other cities also get in their Sunday paper) was titled "What We Know About Sex". It listed several important findings on sex according to the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction. I found a couple of them to be interesting and I wish that I could shove the article in front of my wife and say "here, read this - I'm not crazy after all!" But since I know from experience that such tactics will get me nowhere, I'm including a couple of the findings here just to shove them in front of somebody.
Sexuality defines our lives. Sexuality is central to all of us -- even people who aren't sexually active. It's absolutely fundamental to the organization of human society and has been from the earliest history. Studies show that sexuality plays a significant role in our self-esteem and emotional well-being. For most people, what they think about themselves as a sexual person is a very important part of how they think about themselves as a human being. The effect of having a good sexual relationship on one's well-being is very substantial. A 2000 Kinsey survey found that general physical and mental health were strongly correlated to sexual well-being and satisfaction.
The article also stated that being sexual means letting go. Feeling safe to do so with a partner has a powerful bonding effect. I agree whole-heartedly and I wish that my wife still felt safe enough with me to "let go".
Under the heading "Sex by the Numbers", the article stated that couples in the age range of 30 to 39 (in which my wife and I fall) average having sex 86 times a year. Anytime I point out to my wife that 3 or 4 times per year is not "normal", she acts like I couldn't possibly have any earthly idea how often other couples have sex. So I'm basically including this information as a means of venting.
That's about all I have for the moment. I haven't been particulary motivated to post lately although I've been keeping up with everyone else's posts. I hurt for those of you going through tough times right now and if I had any advice to offer I'd do so gladly. But considering that I've made so little progress myself, I don't feel like anything that I have to say will do anyone any good. You're all in my prayers though.
Hope all is well with you. I am in my second trimester now. Time flies. At least now I feel only 5-10% sick now instead of 70-80% sick all the time. How's your three girls (wife included) at home?
