Just want my H back

[pearlharbr]

Pearl - I assume it took awhile for you to trust BF again after he'd been acting like a jerk and w the OW and all.

Still working through this issue. Will take a long time and still not sure I can get there.

When you guys were separated, did you just try to think of the bad/mean side of him to constantly encourage yourself that you deserved better? Or did you just try to not think of him at all?

At first I was stuck remembering all the good stuff but when I finally got it and kicked him out of the house I honestly didn't think about it or what he was doing. I threw myself into GAL activities and was too busy with dance classes, going out with my friends and planning my move to SF.

How did you come to trust him again after what he did?

Still haven't, see above and my current thread. But that's not something you should be worrying about right now.

Did you actually date others? Is it strange that I'm afraid if I date others I might develop feelings for someone else, and feel less committed to H? I know this is so silly given that it's what he's doing, but part of me is afraid of that..

No, not really. I knew that I was in no shape to date because I needed to get myself right first. But I did go out and enjoy lots of male attention. I flirted with the guys at the sports bar while watching football and I met several other men during those months who paid me lots of compliments. It was great for my ego! But I did end up meeting someone I had a connection with just as BF and I were getting back together. It was difficult to sort through all the feelings there but in the end I decided to give my R with BF 100% of my effort to see if it was viable or not.

You don't have to know Gucci's story to follow his advice (heck, I don't even know his story). Go back and read some of my old threads or check out Dudess's current thread. The point is knowing that you deserve a man who will treat you with respect and love. Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't do that?

FYI, I'm going on vacation for 10 days so I won't be around here. Gmail me if you need to talk.

PS, read Dobson's Love Must Be Tough. I usually can't stand all his FOTF crap but this book really opened my eyes.

[hhh]

Hi all-
One other thing that seems confusing me, as I read thread's for kernels of inspiration and advice: There seems to be a conflict in the following, advice given by gucci and others to men with WAW's - that they will not tolerate this behavior, sharing their wife with someone else, etc. That these LBS should act in a way that is almost an ultimatum: you move out if you are going to continue A (stance taken toward their wives - to stand up to them and demand more respect). But then there is also the GAL advice and attitude of "I am fine, life is great, etc."

These seem to me a bit in conflict. So my life is still in limbo and WAH out may very well be dating other women. Yet he is yet to ask for a D. Kinda cake-eating although we are married only in name at this point. So I can demand 'i will not tolerate this behavior as we are still married...either choose your dating lifestyle or working on our M' (this ultimatum just feels too risky to me, as he may be waiting for me to give up).

At the same time I get the 'fake it that everything is fine and normal...be positive and happy so you are someone they may want to return to' (be happy for yourself i get that, but also give off that impression, even if you dont feel it). That seems to conflict w the demanding respect ultimatum often cited in advice toward men.

Is this a male/female difference in any way or am I not getting it?

BTW husband did text yesterday to see how i am doing: i thought just reply 'great, thanks, how is L.A?' When he asks how I am doing when we see each other in person (i'm sure we will in a few wks b/c he needs to get his tv and stuff from our apt), shall I just continue to respond 'great..' (that is when i often tear up, when he asks that ?, so i need to pull it together a bit more...)

Thanks all for your continued advice and support!
-hhh

[pearlharbr]

I don't think you're getting it yet because you're acting out of fear. You're afraid if you do the wrong thing it will drive your H away. Fear is not a good motivator.

So I can demand 'i will not tolerate this behavior as we are still married...either choose your dating lifestyle or working on our M' (this ultimatum just feels too risky to me, as he may be waiting for me to give up)

Either you believe you are worth it and you will act accordingly or you're not and you'll keep yourself in limbo. The choice is yours.

[mnt_dreams]

what does your heart tell you to do?

For myself, I'm a 'fake til you make it' advocate and I think it matches the DR philosophy from the book. Setting ultimatums, especially when the S is already out of the house as it is in my case and perhaps yours(?) doesn't carry much weight and just pushes them further away, IMHO. More importantly, letting go and just taking care of myself makes me happier. What S would want to come back home to the LBS that said pick me or else. Or else what? Are you really ready to follow through on the 'or else'? If not, think carefully about that one. My two cents.

[hhh]

My heart tells me an ultimatum is not the thing to do (and wouldn't want him to come back purely for that reason anyway). I feel better when i distract/GAL/let go, to the extent i can...focus on myself and making me happy. Gucci's advice is very much about GAL, no pressure (and potentially date others, it sounds) which many think on here think is right call for me. It just seems to conflict w advice others are given in similar situation. And no, I am not ready to follow-through such a threat by filing myself, since that is NOT what I want. I do not want the D, so if he insists upon it I think he should do the work (in which case I might make retrouvaille as my last resort, if it gets to that stage, for purely better communication/last resort).

He did tell me few months ago that he was interested in dating others. At the time I said, "while we're married?" (even though we had been separated and living apart for 4 months) and he responded, 'well fine we can get D then...' It is a hard place b/c I don't want to push towards D, but I don't want to be in limbo forever. I've given myself (in my mind) till the end of the year...in the meantime I will focus on self, GAL, and see what else is out there.

I just wanted to clarify since they seem opposite tactics: The "I'm great happy, fine as things are, no pressure" advice Gucci has given me (both for my own self and to appear more attractive to H) and the ultimatum tactic...but no i am not ready to follow-through w ultimatum so I guess I answered my own ? here. At the same time, I do deserve someone who respects and loves me and not acts out. Pearl has said several times do I want someone who treats me like crap? Of course not, but for the vast majority or our marriage H was about as wonderful as a H could be...so it's hard to not think of that side of him when I'm wanting him back. But I know, he is different now.

Thanks
-hhh

[pearlharbr]

I would never advocate making an ultimatum you are not willing to carry out. And I don't think it necessarily conflicts with other advice to GAL and drop the rope.

I know that you're not ready for an ultimatum, and your sitch doesn't warrant one. What I advocate is figuring out what your boundaries are and enforcing them. Are you willing to keep loaning H money? Are you willing to drive him around or do other favors for him? The question about dating other people is a little trickier. You don't know for certain there is OW but he has mentioned dating. Are you willing to share your H with another woman? You cannot control his behavior but you certainly can define what is and is not acceptable to you and let him know.

I am all for you GAL and making yourself happy. Like a broken record I will keep repeating: stop making it about your H and start making it about yourself. No one else will put your best interests first, it's up to you and you alone.

The past is the past, you can't bring it back. The only thing you can do now is focus on the present and do what you can to have the best possible future.

[Butterfly1]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but i was reading through your thread and something made sense to me - about him feeling "emasculated." I have just begun to realize my husband feels this way too. I never knew it as it is a male issue, and I don't feel such things. I started reading a book that I recommend, "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It," and it keeps returning to a basic tenet: Marital problems are often rooted in the W feeling fear and the H feeling shame. What may look on the outside as the H being angry, avoidant, silent, etc - is often rooted in shame, or emasculation.

since I have begun to see my H through this perspective (he has anger/criticism/verbal abuse issues)I see him not as the terrorizing dictator to be feared or the avoidant, absent guy who stopped caring about me - but as a scared man who is freaked out that he feels vulnerable, emasculated, etc.

This book is really good about shifting the perspective. Perhaps if you can see all his acting out - his claims at moving on, etc - as actually a difficulting handling his own shame, it may take some of his power away.

also, at one point I just hit bottom. I was also physically sick so I just stayed in bed for two days and cried. I was finally convinced he was going to serve me with D papers and end it all. Somehow a peace came over me. I realized that no matter what I want, if he is going to avoid his side of the problems and just walk away blaming it all on me, then I can't control him. He is wrong and irresponsible, he is just as much to blame, but if he can't see this on his own, I have to just face that.

Over a week or more I came to grips with the fact that I may be a single parent soon. And sure enough, he hasn't walked yet. He actually has been hanging around home more like I've posted. There's a lot of strength in not having the fear of them leaving possessing you and your behavior toward him. And my H noticed. Yours may too.

[Stronger]

hhh,
Each situation is different as is each person. You can't tell your spouse what to do and none of the people on here who really are good at this DBing stuff have done that. What they've done is set boundaries related to how they will be treated, how they expect to be treated. I know it's a fine line between that and ultimatums, but to me, as one person fighting for her marriage, it's "This is how I expect you to treat me" more than "You do this or I will do this". These are threats, these are firm boundaries where the WAS needs to understand the LBS still has self respect and is basically making that clear.

[Deep]

hi hhh, well not that I'm so knowledgeable about it, but I think there's that line of difference between boundaries and ultimatums. But in a way, setting boundaries is in itself an ultimatum that says "respect me at least in this basic way" with an implied "or else ...".

GAL simply is living in a way that shows that if you had to (not that you want to), the "or else" is a pretty fulfilling alternative for you. You are happy, complete, and have lots of good things in your life.

In a way of speaking, the "Gucci way" puts the shoe back on your foot. It's simply showing the WAS that there's a consequence to what they choose. No matter how much you may love your spouse, and how much you want the M to work out, it's untenable to just let them get away with murder; if they get the benefits of having you available while they waffle and cake eat, why stop?

There are obviously differences between men/ women, but I don't think this is necessarily one of them - regardless of gender, exclusivity in a monogamous relationship is a desired goal. The way of dealing and reacting to transgressions ... well yeah men may have more of an issue.

Your H may start to feel unwelcome and unexpected reactions if he ever thought there may be a threat to the position of having you around as an ever-available option.

Caveat of course, is that this is just my own limited, inexperienced take on the question you posed. Take care

[Golfgirl1]

Hey Pearlharbr, I'm in Broomfield! I'll meet you for a drink sometime...and hhh if you're coming around Sept. 22, would love to see you too!

Not sure how we connect with each other???