Okay, I've got time to respond to your post. I'm getting some great feedback right now and I'm trying to better understand my wife's viewpoint, so if I come across as argumentative please bear in mind that I'm trying to get that out of my system on here rather than in talking to my wife. Sometimes it takes a little while for me to come around to someone else's way of thinking.
Quote: Sooner, she has opened up and communicated to you. She has told you loud and clear what her issues are. Stop and ask yourself, "how am I misunderstanding my wife?
I agree that she did, in fact, communicate to me this weekend, but it's taken years to get to that point. It's not as if she's been clearly stating her issues all along. On the contrary, what I usually get is "I don't know". Meanwhile, while I've obviously not been very successful, I've been trying to openly share my feelings for a long, long time. The only reason that I haven't been very successful is because, as you well know, what I'm feeling is very difficult to explain. Regardless, I realize that none of that really matters at the moment as I now have something to work with.
Quote: Communicating for your wife is more than an exchange of information to get you from point A to point B. Successful communication to her means a lot more. To her, successsfully communicating means she is validated, important, loved, respected... all the things that sex means to you.
Okay, I do see your point here, and I think that the breakdown in communication between me and my wife is due to the fact that women (generalizing I know - sorry) have a different definition of "communication" than men. If you'll look up the word communication in the dictionary, you'll find something to the effect of "the exchange of information between individuals, for example, by means of speaking, writing, or using a common system of signs or behavior". You won't find anything about feeling validated, important, loved, respected, etc. Nonetheless, if that's what communication means to my wife, that's the way that I've got to start viewing it - not as an exchange of information, but rather as making her feel however she wants to feel. Personally, I view that as being different than communication, but I suppose it doesn't really matter what you call it.
Quote: Were you to show the same concern over your lack of communication that you show over your lack of sex, I think you might get a different response from her
I'll buy that - I basically have to strive to make her feel validated, important, loved, and respected in the process of exchanging information.
Quote: Your wife must committ whatever time it takes to figure out what her needs are, and what she thinks might reduce her anxiety and resentment toward you. She has to do this, or you cannot help her. This is definately an area for a boundary, and if she balks at this, or still does not feel you are hearing her, I strongly suggest you two find a counselor who will go a long way in mediating your discussions, and help her figure out the source(s) of her anxiety/resentment and how to deal with them.
I agree, but can you offer any suggestions as to how I can get her to do that? My best guess is to go about it as MPT suggested, but I'm not sure that she'll be willing to commit the time to figuring out what her needs actually are - mainly because she really has very little spare time. And I doubt that she's willing to "make" time to solve our problems due to the fact that she's not nearly as motivated as I am to do so. I agree that a counselor would be of great benefit to mediate our discussions, but I really don't think she'll agree to counseling. She's made it fairly clear to me that she's basically "anti-counseling". Of course, I felt the exact same way not long ago, and my thinking relative to counseling has changed dramatically.
I've got some work to do in order to figure out how I can best facilitate the communication that you've described. I'll be pondering for a while - meanwhile, please continue to help me come to grips with this "new" definition of communication.
Definition of sex in Websters: "the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral peculiarities of living beings that subserve reproduction by two interacting parents and distinguish males and females"
hmmmmm...nothing there about feeling validated, important, loved, respected, etc.
MPT - I can't believe you're picking on me after I called you a fox! Just for the sake of argument, I never said that sex means feeling validated, important, loved, respected, etc. Corri actually said those things in trying to help me understand that good communication helps my wife to feel closer to me in the same way that a good sexual relationship helps me to feel closer to her. I actually do understand what she was trying to say, and I realize that she wasn't implying that feeling validated, important, loved, and respected are actually part of the definition of communication. They are more the results that my wife gets from good communication, or basically from knowing that I understand her. Despite my tendency to be argumentative, I do get the point.
You were not being argumentative, and I think you actually got the points I was trying to make. I think that's great.
Now as far as getting your wife to define what her needs are:
Remember, you can't make HER do anything. However, what MPT suggested you do is a great path to follow because you are asking her to define her needs in the interests of YOU understanding HER. The intent of this exercise could make all the difference in the world.
When you ask her to elaborate on how she is feeling -- if she ever starts to struggle verbalizing that and reverts to the 'Oh, I don't know, can we drop this?' -- ask her to think about it some on her own, and make a date to talk abou it again two or three days from now.
That way, it gives her room to think, but it also gives her a deadline and lets her know in a non-agressive way that you are willing to drop the issue for now, but have no intention of dropping the issue indefinitely.
MPT - I just reread my reply to you and realized that the statement "I can't believe you're picking on me..." could have been taken as me being mad. I wasn't mad at all and was actually just trying to be funny, so I apologize if I came across otherwise.
Thanks Corri. Those are good suggestions and I plan to follow through with them. Just have to do a little more pondering first - I need to have a plan of action so that I don't get off track and say something the wrong way.
You and MPT make a good team. I kind of look at you as the "butt kicker" while MPT is the "diplomat".
Quote: MPT - I just reread my reply to you and realized that the statement "I can't believe you're picking on me..." could have been taken as me being mad. I wasn't mad at all and was actually just trying to be funny, so I apologize if I came across otherwise.
I didn't think you were.
'fraid the woodwor....uh....woods are calling me again though. Got a deadline to meet. I'll check back soon.
Corri - I just realized that you never said anything about the butt-kicker comment. I thought that would make you really happy as I know you take pride in not pulling any punches.
I've been reading your posts all week (to others) and I've got to tell you that your advice and illustrations are getting better all the time. You have a real gift when it comes to understanding how people work. We poor souls here on the board are lucky to have you.
I don't know that I take 'pride' in being blunt... seems to be a God given talent that I couldn't get rid of if I tried. The butt-kicker comment did make me laugh, though.
And I was most certainly humbled by your compliments. Thanks. I feel equally as lucky to have all of you.
Had a really busy day yesterday, for the first time in I don't know how long. And then Cloud asked me that question about why I was cold to my H, and dam it, I had to think about it darn near all day to figure out the best way to explain it.
