Must've Been That Mojo Boogie

[Greek]

(Afterthought: with no intention of attributing evil... don't forget that FFF has a horse in this race too. Sophisticated intellectual women don't really compete less, they just know how to make it a lot more subtle. Too subtle to be aware of it themselves sometimes. IMHO.)

I caught that, too, Kett. SP --- FFF will not be good counsel for you at this time (MHO). She may be an interesting distraction, and she certainly is 'gucci bait'... but she's probably not objective.

Cheers~~~

[SmileysPerson]

@Kett/@Greek -- it's not the source that intrigues me, it's the question. The question itself is a good one.

[SmileysPerson]

@alive --

I wish I could assuage many of your assertions that if only WAW had spelled it out...if only we had discussed that the ship was sinking...then we could have done something about it.

I understand that your sitch is different, but I think I know myself well enough to know that if it had been in plain (i.e., Smiley's Person-comprehensible) English, we would have done something about it.

SP, you proclaim that your marriage was providing as little to you as it was to her.

No, I didn't say that. I said I've become aware of the fact that I was ignoring my own dissatisfactions, in part because I expected that, in Normal Life, there would be ups and downs, peaks and valleys. But they were not the Stuff of Divorce in any event.

You were unsatisfied...and what did you do about it?

No, again -- I was dissatisfied. And I mentioned it. Repeatedly.

The WAW and the LBS are firing at moving targets.

That's a very good way of putting it, apropos of nothing. Excellent.

My point is that we "try" in different ways

A very good point.

I have to say that W being bored during foreplay is pretty depressing for her too and that she would say it is just awful but then again, we are chiding her for NOT communicating enough too.

I'm not chiding her for not communicating enough. But this seems to me to fall into the category of things that might have been brought to my attention yesterday (@ 0:25).

[SmileysPerson]

@Kett --

(to repeat myself) What did you think when she said the ugh boring during foreplay? What did you say/do? Why?

I rolled back to my side of the bed. Stared at the ceiling a bit. And said, "Okay, what is it I should be doing?" And when she did the "I didn't mean...." thing, I said something to the effect of, "No, it's alright, I mean if you're not happy then you should be able to tell me. I wish you'd timed it better, but..." And so she specified some business, and I proceeded to do the business, but the fact was that neither of us was into it at that point -- I mean, it seemed sort of phony -- and both of us could sense it, and so it just sort of meandered off into a mutual (and mutually unsatisfied) "well, goodnight."

And that was the last time we were ever together.

What did you think when you got the lackluster response to your anniversary gestures? What did you say/do? Why?

I said it was okay, I understood she was busy. I mean, it's not like it was the first time. And what was I going to do? Make a scene in a restaurant? Stalk off in anger? It's what she did the last few years. I kept up my end in the Symbolic Recognition Department, and she didn't. It was what it was.

with no intention of attributing evil... don't forget that FFF has a horse in this race too.

Maybe. And maybe I'm naive (though I don't think so). But we've had very honest conversations about each other's M's and D's. I think the question is a good one. It's certainly not one anyone else -- well, except maybe @robx -- has asked. "What's in it for you?" I mean, we all do this, right? "I want to save my marriage!" Look at how many newbie threads start with that as the topic name. But why? Oh, that's a dicey question, indeed.

[hoosiermama]

Quote:
(to repeat myself) What did you think when she said the ugh boring during foreplay? What did you say/do? Why?


I rolled back to my side of the bed. Stared at the ceiling a bit. And said, "Okay, what is it I should be doing?" And when she did the "I didn't mean...." thing, I said something to the effect of, "No, it's alright, I mean if you're not happy then you should be able to tell me. I wish you'd timed it better, but..." And so she specified some business, and I proceeded to do the business, but the fact was that neither of us was into it at that point -- I mean, it seemed sort of phony -- and both of us could sense it, and so it just sort of meandered off into a mutual (and mutually unsatisfied) "well, goodnight."

And that was the last time we were ever together.

Ouch.

[aliveandkicking]

I understand that your sitch is different, but I think I know myself well enough to know that if it had been in plain (i.e., Smiley's Person-comprehensible) English, we would have done something about it.

You knew something was very wrong and didn't know what to do about it, that was my point.

A perfect example is W saying foreplay was boring. It was clearly stated. So what? Who knew how to fix it? Neither of you.

[Thinker]

I understand that your sitch is different, but I think I know myself well enough to know that if it had been in plain (i.e., Smiley's Person-comprehensible) English, we would have done something about it.

You knew something was very wrong and didn't know what to do about it, that was my point.

A perfect example is W saying foreplay was boring. It was clearly stated. So what? Who knew how to fix it? Neither of you.

I think this is pretty common to most of our sitch's. I have to admit that I knew the R was going downhill for a long time. I actually remember dreams of getting divorced that occured more than a year before the bomb. The R was bad. Both of us knew it (althought I did not want to admit it), and (exactly as above) neither of us had a clue why it was bad or what to do about it.

I was thinking about the topic SP has been bringing up about (paraphrasing) "What if WAS does not change - can there be a recondiliation into an R that is good for both parties INCLUDING LBS?"

My answer: YES

Reasoning:
Both parties contributed to a dynamic in the R. If one party changes, the R will be different. It has to be. In my sitch my R was bad because I got passive, let things slide, and allowed myself to be walked on. If I have TRULY changed, then I won't be passive, won't allow myself to be walked on, and the R dynamic has to be different. It either won't work at all (in which case there won't be an M to worry about) or it will be better. In either case, you don't have to worry about whether the WAS has changed or works on his or her self - just stay true to the changes you made (or need to make).

SP, you see that your W never paid attention to your work or special events (as an example). You don't have to worry whether or not she has changed or will change and whether now she will pay attention to those things. You need to make it clear to her that those things are important to you and reinforce that if she does not. Either she will start paying willing attention to those things (and the M will work), or she will refuse (in which case you will both know it won't work).

[Kimmie Lee]

OMG! Just, OMFG!!!!

I can't imagine how that would feel to have beloved spouse say "Ugh, this is boring." How in the hell does she take something like that back? Reading those words made me cry.

I am so embarrassed to be a woman. They really are heinous. I bet FFF thought you were very interesting.

Run as fast as you can from WAW. Don't look back.

[Kettricken]

She said it, and I think it was heinous too.

Heinous to voice it, *like that*.

But not heinous to feel it. Honest to feel it. Haven't most of us, at one time or another, in a LTR?

Which is worse? Voicing it like that, sans tact? Or not voicing it at all based on the assumption that (a) his ego wouldn't survive it or (b) he didn't care enough to try to change things up or (c) didn't have the intelligence, creativity, and mad man skillz to succeed even he he did try?

Tough call.

[Kimmie Lee]

It's not a tough call at all.

It was cruel, unseemly, and classless. A statement "like that" is voiced for one reason only: To inflict pain.

Ick!