In Limbo

[d1adsl5a]

Begginer,

As you can see in my response to Jimbo, I will try. It is the every two weeks of idle chatter will get to me. Nothing I seem to do will erase this drive to get my head beat in again when I want to talk about R. I know, if you know the answer, why ask it.. However, I keep asking. True, I have been going through the motions. Every week I get a new reason that I stumble across that makes it harder to want to try. But I guess I wouldn't be on this site if I didn't love her and I didn't want to try. So tomorrow is another day--our 15 year anniversary day. Should be interesting. I think I will end up showing up at her little fundraiser tomorrow night.

Thanks....

[dl443322]

Listen, what you are feeling is all normal at the beginning of this. We are just trying to save you some heartache and some backsliding that can slow down this whole process.

When you continue to have relationships talks, it does a lot of things. It makes her think you are not hearing her, it is pressure on her, you are seen as pursuing and weak, it doesnt help her see things, it just validates the reasons in her head why she wants out. So stop it.

You are in control of yourself and your actions. So, do whatever you have to to stop yourself from starting those conversations. Go for a walk, call a friend, write in a journal, pray, play with your kids, get it?

And if you go tomorrow, NO RELATIONSHIP TALKS!!!!!! Be your best self, be confident, strong, self assured. Look your best and be personable.

You can do this if you stop making excuses. Get on board here. YOu'll be glad you did.

[Jimbo]

Thanks Jimbo for my daily dose of reality. You can obviously see right through me. I guess I keep trying different tactics to elicit a different response or emotion. I get that it is the wrong approach and wrong thought process. I would imagine that is because I haven't detached, I am still looking for that one day for her to say I'm sorry, I want to try again. It is so hard just acting like nothing bothers me everyday.

No probs, D1. And the only reason I can see right through you, as you put it, is that I've been where you are now.

When folks first start out in all of this, they tend to scour the board for the "Magic Bullet": that one thing they can say or do to fix the problem. Eventually they discover that the Magic Bullet doesn't exist and that the only way out is through. A lot of folks stick with the work for a while. Some longer than others. It seems to me the ones that continue to "stand" are the ones that have taken the time to educate themselves on just what it is their spouses are going through. They read the MLC resources and archives. They read the threads of other LBSes. They reach out, glean the learnings, and then reach back and try to help the next guy or gal with what they've learned. And, perhaps most importantly of all, THEY WORK ON THEMSELVES.

You've made a good start. Detatchment takes time. It takes patience: with your W, your sitch and with yourself. There will be times that you blow it- maybe you lose your cool in front of your W, maybe you try to engage your W in a talk about your R. The important thing to remember about your mistakes is that they are learning experiences. They only become mistakes when you keep doing them over and over.

I almost feel like she has rewritten every year of our 15 year marriage. She did say during our R discussion, I don't love myself, don't think I ever have. I don't even know what love is. I only have enough love for the kids now. I haven't loved you for over 5 years. That was the reason I went on the antidepressants. At the time, I(and her friends who witnessed it)thought it was due to her horrible temper. She said I know I should have said something, you just picked a bad person for a wife.

When you can stand back and look at it without getting caught up in the emotional content, the rewrite is a truly fascinating phenomena (in the same morbid way that a train wreck is fascinating). And it's so very strange that they all do it, like they're following some sort of bizarre script! To see them come to a conclusion ("ILYBINILWYA"), and then take the past and reverse engineer it until it fits that conclusion is alarming, disconcerting, and disturbing....especially if you have no idea why they're doing it, or worse, buy into their rewrite.

You're not really buying into her rewrite, are you?

So yes, I can see the confusion you talked about in her words. A little over 4 months ago she was acting like we were a happily married couple, family. Then, it hits you like a wall. And it keeps hitting you over and over again.

I know exactly what you mean, D1. My W was a very touchy-feely sort of person- lots of hugs and kisses. I slowly watched as she transformed from giving me kisses and hugs, to just hugs, to hugging me and running off, to absolutely no contact. I could almost sense the internal struggle as she fought so hard with herself to hang on....but to no avail.

Regarding the timeline, that is another area where I am challenged. I guess when I am ready to pack it in, I will. Whether it's 6 months, a year, or longer. I am just at that stage right now where that piece of you is missing. That closness of her companionship, that friendship. I do get it from our sons but it isn't the same.

Being in the position you are in vocationally, I can see how you might be tempted to rely on some sort of a timeline. Read the MLC resources and archives. Do your homework on exactly what you are dealing with. This will help you to throw away the timeline.

I guess in closing, the hardest part is that about every two weeks I need a temperature check. By not talking to her about anything but superficial stuff, I just have to dump. As I said to fallgirl, Monday night was hard. I am grown man that had to go cry in his car because it is all just too much to take sometimes.

Just as your W can't even be there for herself right now, she certainly can't be there for you also. Come here to dump. That's part of why we're here.


You said "I am (a) grown man that had to go cry in his car because it is all just too much to take sometimes."

You say this like it is something to be ashamed of.

I, also, am a grown man that has to go somewhere to cry sometimes.

I seriously doubt you'll find ANY man on this board who does not cry "because it is all just too much to take sometimes."

And if you do, I will guarantee you that he's a liar.

I am not ashamed of my feelings for my W, nor of acknowledging those feelings. Neither should you be.


On a related note:

Maybe you have learned this lesson for yourself, and don't need to hear what I'm about to say. But in case you haven't....

We all grow up with different backgrounds- some differences are generational, some cultural.

Maybe you were taught that hiding or even denying your feelings made you strong.

I am not judging you- only speaking from experience when I say...

DO NOT BOTTLE UP YOUR EMOTIONS! I can not stress to you enough how important this is. YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST RELEASE THOSE FEELINGS. IF YOU DON'T RELEASE THEM, YOU WILL BOTTLE THEM UP UNTIL BURSTING POINT, AND THEN YOU WILL MOST LIKELY EXPLODE AT THE OBJECT OF YOUR EMOTIONS- NAMELY YOUR W!!!!

Don't let this happen. Allow yourself to process those feelings. It helps a great deal.

And, like I said before, come here to vent.

I am doing many of the things to make me happy. It is football season and there is nothing I like more than watching my sons play tackle football everynight. I have been going out more and having a good time. I told my W that I met someone(yes to try and make her jealous) and that I left before I did anything stupid. My W said she was happy I met someone. I said that is exactly what you would like me to do is cheat to make it easy on you. I will not be turned into a monster in this. I know that is the wrong approach as well.

I am working on it....I swear.

You found out for yourself that the jealousy angle doesn't work either, so I'll skip it.

(An observation: the guilt trip angle is just as disastrous.)

Thanks for your support Jimbo(from In Limbo...)

Glad I can be there for you D1 (who is not done! )

[Twink]

To see them come to a conclusion ("ILYBINILWYA"), and then take the past and reverse engineer it until it fits that conclusion is alarming, disconcerting, and disturbing....especially if you have no idea why they're doing it, or worse, buy into their rewrite.

You're not really buying into her rewrite, are you?

Oh, boy. This may be one of the few things I did right as my situation was developing before the bomb. During one particular verbal rant, H declared that I had said something very critical about his younger, single friends a year before. "I decided then that I was done with you." I stayed calm and simply said that I didn't remember saying any such thing, and I didn't feel that way about them. Of course he thought that MY memory was gone, but I knew better. Now I know exactly what that was.

When I was doing all the wrong things after our S and before I came here, I actually said "We've had a lot a good times together." H's blank look told it all. They certainly do change the past, but we know the truth.

[d1adsl5a]

I wasn't necessarily brought up that way to hide the emotions. Just over time, I guess I learned to sequester them.

I am starting to understand more that in her mind she was trying to pretend and please everyone her whole life. So whether I was super husband or not, this was bound to happen sometime. I just wish there were more signs along the way. I do get we never really developed a good method of communication between us either. Otherwise, I would have had a better idea of what she was thinking.

I do continue to buy into the rewrite. I do let it effect me. You sometimes think were we living a lie this whole time. Why would she have wanted a fourth child with me if she was feeling this way...

I can tell that I am still trying the quick fixes. Not necessarily to change things right now. But to just get her to think that trying at a certain point may be worth while. I know that is something that I can't do anymore. It just bugs the hell out of me that she can just go on and act like nothing is wrong day in and day out. I am always the one that seems to be having a hard time getting through this emotionally.

I did read some of your thread yesterday Jimbo. Not sure if this is something you want to answer. What is the status of your relationship? Did your wife ever come back? Did you divorce? Are you still in limbo?

It looks like around month 6 is when you started to really get how to handle things with your W.

Thanks.

[d1adsl5a]

Well Jimbo, I did want to say it looks like the R discussion from the other night did come back to haunt me. As you know today is our anniversary. In the heat of our discussion the other night, I said well I guess our anniversay day doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I also said that I wasn't going to go tonight to the fundraiser. This morning I said I am going. She sent me a note a short time ago saying too late to get a baby sitter and I said today didn't mean anything anyway. I responded we are both saying things we don't mean to hide the hurt. Anyway, I guess that is why you don't have the R discussion. The things she says to me are so hurtful. I know I should respond, but sometimes it just comes out. I am just trying to protect myself from the pain and trying to give her some of her own pain back. I obviously have a long way to go on the DB front....

I do have a choice, show up anyway. But probably would appear desperate or trying to check up on her. I guess I would rather be somewhere where I am wanted rather than not. I would imagine I also gave her an easy out for tonight. Or I can just go do something with my sons.

She just makes it so hard sometimes to be compassionate.

[d1adsl5a]

Twink,

I have been buying into some of them hook, line and sinker. She lays out the bait and 7 out of 10 times I take it. As I said to Jimbo a short time ago, I have along way to go on the DB front. I am clearly having a tough time dealing with her emotions. Detaching is the key, I have not detached yet. It is definitely clouding my judgement and emotions on a daily basis. There hasn't been one ounce of compassion or hint she still cares from her. Never knew someone can create a wall so thick in my life. But apparently she has been practicing her whole life.

[Jimbo]

I wasn't necessarily brought up that way to hide the emotions. Just over time, I guess I learned to sequester them.

Sequestering them is okay- suppressing them is not. You've got to be able to have a place and time to let it all out, no holds barred. And the more often, the better. I won't bore you with the scientific studies, but it rebalances all sorts of hormone levels, and just flat out helps you to cope more effectively.

As a sidebar- something else that helps A LOT is to work out regularly. If you haven't already, get active on a regular basis. (Join a gym.) I can't begin to tell you the world of difference this made in lifting my attitudes and balancing out my emotions. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

I am starting to understand more that in her mind she was trying to pretend and please everyone her whole life. So whether I was super husband or not, this was bound to happen sometime.

It's always an important breakthrough when you finally realize for yourself that, no mater what you did or did not do, no matter whether you were in her life or not, She would STILL be going through this!

It's all about her personal development in her past that she has to confront and deal with.

I just wish there were more signs along the way. I do get we never really developed a good method of communication between us either. Otherwise, I would have had a better idea of what she was thinking.

Two points here, D1:

1) "I do get we never really developed a good method of communication between us either."

Communication is (or should be) a two-way street. You were both doing the best you could with the skills you had at the time. That being said, my W and I had excellent communication skills. We always discussed things in a thorough manner, and respected each others viewpoints. And you know what?

Her MLC still happened.


2) "Otherwise, I would have had a better idea of what she was thinking."

And you know what?

Her MLC would have still happened.

(Are you beginning to notice a pattern here?... )

I do continue to buy into the rewrite. I do let it effect me. You sometimes think were we living a lie this whole time. Why would she have wanted a fourth child with me if she was feeling this way...

I think you have answered your own question here....

I can tell that I am still trying the quick fixes. Not necessarily to change things right now. But to just get her to think that trying at a certain point may be worth while.

Try to look at what you are doing here through her eyes.

Can you see how she might construe your actions as pressuring?

If you pressure her, she will distance even further- guaranteed.

I know that is something that I can't do anymore. It just bugs the hell out of me that she can just go on and act like nothing is wrong day in and day out. I am always the one that seems to be having a hard time getting through this emotionally.

If I had my guess....you're stressing out over the fact that you can't get a reaction out of her, yes?

Stop. Let her be.

You know this isn't about you.

You know you can't control her.

The only things you have control over are you and your own actions.

Focus on what you have control over.

You.

Work on being a better you.

I did read some of your thread yesterday Jimbo. Not sure if this is something you want to answer. What is the status of your relationship? Did your wife ever come back? Did you divorce? Are you still in limbo?

It looks like around month 6 is when you started to really get how to handle things with your W.

Thanks.

I have no problem with answering any questions you might have for me, D1.

What is the status of my relationship? I was informed by my L yesterday that my W's L has requested a hearing rather than arranging for a court appearance, and at this rate that my D will be final before the end of next month.

That being said- here is something for you to keep in mind: Just because my W has chosen this path doesn't necessarily mean that all hope is lost. Sometimes the MLC spouse must go this route. Sometimes they must do EVERYTHING they possibly can to "get away", not realizing just yet that they are really trying to run away from themselves. And I think we all know how well that works.

I know for a fact that my W has an OM. Last I heard, she has every intention of marrying him once our D is final.

Having done my homework, I know that the OM is a band-aid. She doesn't know what is wrong- to quote her, "I don't know what I want, but I don't want this." (Presumably meaning our M.)....she doesn't know what she wants, yet she is remarrying despite the fact that she knows she doesn't want to be married?????

Why?

She is hooked on the feelings of love. Hooked on them because those feelings help her to forget about the problems festering away in the background that she doesn't know how to fix- the problems she would have to confront if he weren't there.

So what happens after several years (maybe much less!) when the honeymoon is over and the romance fades, and the business of real living starts to kick in?

She still hasn't dealt with her issues.

And she's right back where she started. Again. (But hopefully wiser. If not, she'll repeat the cycle again with someone else.)

This is why the accumulation of the good memories is so important....

Eventually, when they start to "get it", they think back.....

And they remember all the good times.

And, with any luck...

they overcome their pride, embarrassment, and any other self-imposed obstacles....

and they come back.

Wiser. Stronger. Better for the experience.

In the meantime, I don't just sit around moping, feeling sorry for myself, or pining for what once was.

I WORK ON MYSELF.

I make me the best me I can be.

So that, if the day comes that she should want to turn those "impromptu" 2-hour conversations into something more....

....into a REAL R......

....I'll be ready too.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

You should really listen to Jimbo, and he is being really nice with you.

I know I should respond, but sometimes it just comes out.

I'm pretty sure you meant shouldn't

I know...but...
I know...but...
I know...but...

I know...but I'm different?
I know...but this one time will work despite evidence to the contrary?

Eventually even a child with a learning disability stops touching the red stove top.

I am just trying to protect myself from the pain and trying to give her some of her own pain back.

That'll show her.

D, you're 40 not 14.

You want a sign from her, you're expecting one and YOU are at fault for this, this is your fault. She is unable to give you one. Not capable. Its like being pi ssed off at a rock for not having water in it. Your also letting that fuel your anger.

You have 3 young boys, you need help with a focus? Focus on them. Oh yeah and don't be a douche bag and try to get them on your side. You protect them from this as best you can, you are their support not the other way around.

You can do this, but you need to start learning from your mistakes instead of repeating them, and then justifying why.

[dl443322]

Hey J3B, nice to see you back here. Jimbo, as always, wonderfully said.

D, there are no shortcuts here. You dont get a free pass. You can spin your wheels and try different things and hope that one of them works. But, I will tell you, the only way to do this is do the work.

There are enough of us here who have gone through this to be able to tell you what doesnt work. What doesnt work is any pleading, crying or guilt on your part. What doesnt work is you trying to geat her to explain why she feels as she does. What doesnt work are relationship talks at this stage. What doesnt work is you making excuses for your actions.

So, you can keep doing all these things or you can start your journey. Your choice.