You are dealing with a very confused woman. She has an affair that you are willing to forgive her for and try to repair your marriage, but she cannot forgive you for your affair that you have worked so hard to overcome.
I know how much pain you are in, but no more violence no matter what. Walk out the door first. Just walk, then deal with the pain when you are away from the house. You do not need to give her any indication that you could have a repeat of the smashing of the pictures and give her that ammunition.
Besides, it's too scary for the girls. I know that it is unavoidable having them witness the mess of the weekend, but they deserve better from both of you. How are they, BTW? I'm sure they are really confused, too.
At least you have talked since the blowup, so that is positive. Was she responsive to what you were saying to her about forgiveness and trying to maintain your marriage? I take it that you are at the house and not at the pimp pad.
Let us know what is going on with you, we want to help if we can.
No, I'm staying at the pimp pad. Very lonely there. Going to buy some groceries for the place and cook a meal for a change. Stopped at my mom's first to use her PC.
I feel so lonely, scared, worthless, ugly, confused, and sick to my stomach. She has been positive about our talks, and seems to realize that she needs to cut it off with this guy. I've asked her to give me a deadline for her decision, and she said she needs a week, so Dec. 1 I should know if it's me, or him. It's out of my control.
She is confused, I'll give you that. She really believes that this guy is worth looking into in terms of a long-term relationship. I tried to tell her that she's just playing with fire, and that she's just going to play her feelings for him off her feelings for me, yet get nowhere. It'll just be an emotional ping-pong match, with me as one side, and I told her in no uncertain terms that I will not be party to such a game. She must make a choice for what path to take. Until then, I wait. If she chooses me, great. If she chooses him, fire all the legal guns I have at my disposal.
You did the right thing by forcing her to make a decision and a timeframe in which to do it. The waiting is a killer, but we have played the waiting game before.
You are far from worthless. That is just the situation speaking and we all have those times that we feel like this. Our lives that we thought were secure are unraveling. We are bound to have thoughts about where we fit in. Because right now, we don't fit in where we want to be. I am grateful for this BB because I have a large group of peers that are going through or have gone through what we are experiancing and their insights and knowledge are comforting to me, and I hope, to you, too.
Cloudy, you have become a friend as we go through this trial by fire and support each other on our worst days, share in the small joys that we have, and comfort each other when the insecurities and uncertanties become obstacles that overwhelm us.
Whatever the decision, I'm here to listen and try to help. Try to take care of yourself, because you deserve so much more than what you are dealing with.
Quote: I feel so lonely, scared, worthless, ugly, confused, and sick to my stomach.
Cloud, please don't define yourself according to her actions. Hasn't that gone on long enough? We take a chance when we give people ultimatums and set boudaries with them. We have to live with their choices and fully realize that most of the time their choices are driven by confusion. What they choose to do is not a reflection on our worth as a person...it's a reflection on them and their ability to face their own problems. You have not ask for much from your wife...to be loved and wanted. What she has done is like a slap in the face and a cruel dismissal of you as a person. I'm angry with your wife Brian for showing so little concern for your feelings or the feelings of her daughter.
You need to dig really, really deep as you sit trying to rationalize her behavior. I know from your postings here that your wife has a history of getting what she wants when she wants it. Somewhere along the line she failed to learn empathy and this latest action is just more proof of that. There are many, many layers to her and what she has done is no reflection at all on who you are and what you are worth. You need to tinge that pain you are feeling with a little anger. Just enough to protect yourself and keep yourself from internalizing her actions.
Quote: I tried to tell her that she's just playing with fire, and that she's just going to play her feelings for him off her feelings for me, yet get nowhere.
Don't make the mistake of telling her how she is feeling. She will only look at it as you trying to control her and it will cause her to dig her heels in further. You have no idea what her motives are or what she is feeling and she probably doesn't either. Let her figure it out but stick with your ultimatum. You are right to not let yourself get caught in the middle. If she can't make a choice and work at constructively putting the family back together then cut her loose and let her hang herself.
I'm so sorry she has done this. I can't imagine how it feels but can empathize and I do greatly. Brian, she is just acting out. There is no way she has feelings for this person. You guys have not been separated long enough for that to happen. Her thinking is skewed and right now her values are misplaced. Don't buy into her mindset.
I'm glad you are now in a place of your own. I know it's lonely but maybe you can have the girls with you a lot on the weekends to fill time and space with. Go out and blow some cash on a computer and keep in touch with us here often. Don't be led by your feelings and continue to stand your ground. Cathy~
Jesus H. Murphy Motherfu!$king Christ, Josephy, Mary, Margaret and all the GAWDdam saints in the heavens above... I get into a car, drive to Florida, TWO DAYS OF DRIVING in a car... and YOU, YOU... I hop on the PC and the whole FU&$CKING world around here explodes!!!!!!!
There's NO EMAIL adress to find you, no phone number to call, all I can do is pound on a keyboard and pray to God that some form of brilliant inspiration will flow through my fingertips... You know, and what's worse, I had a dream about you last night, so you've been kind of floating through my thoughts here and there... and given that I've never met you, seen you, talked to you, it seems a real weird thing that I should dream about you... well, it was a strange dream. I'll fill you in sometime.
Cloud. The reason why you are feeling so scared, loney, ugly worthless... and all those other awful things you're calling yourself... is precisely because you feel so out of control. Those feelings have nothing to do with her. Your life has been turned end-over-end and you feel adrift at sea. Though I have never met you, I am certain you are anything but ugly, worthless, etc. You can't be ANY of those things because I like you too much, and I happen to have excellent, impeccable taste.
There is no such thing as control and there is no such thing as safety. They are illusions we create for ourselves so we don't have to live in a constant state of anxiety. Things will come along in life that periodically strip our illusions away, and guess what? You're illusions have been ripped from you.
Doesn't mean you are at the mercy of life. Just means that when the tape of life rips the hair from your body, it hurts.
We are not defined by the esteem of others, we are not defined by the love of others, we are not defined by our talents, intelligence, accomplishments, career, pay level, or possessions.
We are defined soley by the decisions we make.
Should you be so careless as to decide that you are lonely, ugly, worthless, scared and confused, you will continue to act and react and MAKE DECISIONS in a manner that will bear these things out in your life.
Stop, Cloud. Your wife is doing her thing right now, but DO NOT allow her confusion to send you spiraling. There is no doubt that these things hurt, but they are not happening because you somehow have the misguided notion that you are an unworthy being. The world is not revolving around you and throwing hailstorms at you for misdeeds, misactions... the world is happening. Period. Seperate yourself from it so that you can best decide how to navigate the storm. Of course the hail hurts as it rains down upon you. But it is not raining down upon you as retrobution. It is hailing because that is what sometimes happens in life.
Don't curl up on me now, guy. You've got a storm to weather, and falling apart and crying about being stuck in the storm, while tempting, is not going to get you through it.
You can fight this and rale at the heavens, or you can accept the situation as it comes and take this one step at a time. But for God's sake, do not help the storm in defeating you by joining it in beating yourself up.
You are beautiful in every single way. And even if you don't FEEL beautiful at the moment, that doesn't mean that you aren't. All it means is that you aren't listening to me, and we all KNOW how unwise that is.
This was not the inspired brilliance I was hoping for you. So keep writing, and I will keep trying to be inspiringly brilliant, and we can keep trying together.
Boy, has it been an interesting day. I have pulled out all the stops on this one. I went to the house this morning to see the wife at 6:30am, a time we agreed to meet and talk before the little one got up. I stopped at the store and bought her a bouquet of flowers. When I walked in, the first thing I asked her was...What is the status of your *relationship* with the fireman?..She replied that it is interesting enough that it is something she'd LIKE TO EXPLORE! I practically collapsed on the couch (a different one than the one she did him on). She responded with genuine concern.
I did not get mad, but I told her that I cannot continue seeing her, or doing anything with her, until she decides if it's Him, or Me. We had plans to join another couple for dinner tonight, and she wanted to still attend this with me. I told her that I found it odd that a practical stranger gets the part of her that I have long craved, while I get to join her on playdates with the kids, and a dinner date with a couple of friends. WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME???? I asked her if she looked at the picture of me on the wall above the couch while he screwed her, thinking to herself *he gets me, and you don't!". It was a rhetorical question, but it hit home. In the end, she agreed to end the *relationship* with this guy, and to do it today. She finally did it, and she called me at 3pm to let me know she had. I can tell she still has feelings for the guy, which I guess is natural. How do I know she really cut it off with him? She told me that she informed him that she cannot do this at this time, and that she wishes to work on her marriage. She also told him that I found out about the two of them and what happened in my house Friday night.
I asked her how she felt about putting this guy out to pasture, and she said that she wishes that she had been able to meet him under different circumstances, that he is a guy she wanted to get to know better, and that he really is a very decent man. (awwwww....isn't that nice?) She said that this is not about him, that it's about the two of us, man and wife. I want so much more from her right now. I want to be invited back into the house, I want her to seem to want me more. I had the roughest afternoon of my life today, despite getting and accepting a job offer, which I start Monday.
We met tonight for the dinner, and we had an excellent time. We held each other, and kissed each other softly. We were very affectionate. We ended the evening by telling each other that we were comfortable with each other, and that it felt good just to have fun together again. We kissed, but her kisses still feel......is *remote* a good word? I'm impatient, and very anxious. I plan to drive by the house tonight to see if Mr. Fireman is paying a late night visit. Can't trust yet, even though I had a good time tonight. Her finishing words tonight were, as she looked caringly into my eyes, Remember: this is about you, and me...no one else. I have asked that we seek a top-notch therapist ASAP and get down to work. She agreed.
Am I being to nice to her? Am I being too easy on her? Am I depriving her of true happiness with this fireman by giving her an ultimatum? I am still hurting so much, and now I have to go to this lonely f#@king apartment to try and sleep. It's been a loooong day folks, but I'm hanging in there.
By the way, when do threads run out? This one's getting kinda long. I really want to express my gratitude and love to all of you who have followed this with me. I need you all badly, and am so thankful for your kind and supportive words. They carry so much weight right now, especially from Corri, who once said she could never last 2 minutes in a room with me. Them were the days.
Dammit!!! I'm staying in this lonely apartment, can't sleep, all kinds of negative thoughts running through my mind, and I know she's in our comfortable home, in a comfortable bed, probably fantasizing about the fireman.
Why am I tying my self-worth to this person? Why even TRY to make it work with this person, when I believe she really wants the other guy? I get no real sense of regret from her for what she did. She told me yesterday that she was being selfish with her life, but she said it in sort of a proud way, like *I'm doing something for me, for once*. That's how it sounded and how it felt. It is almost 8am here, and I wish she would call me to see how I'm doing. I'm the one reaching out to her. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Should I be creating boundaries that I'm not? I just want her so badly, yet now I'm starting to feel deep anger at her. At first, I was sympathetic, telling her that what she did was perfectly human, and that we can make this work if we wanted to. I was so damn understanding and NICE!! Now, I am so f#@king angry. I want to tell her that she can have the fireman, that I will throw my chances with another. I told her last night that I believe she was grooming my replacement, that after the holidays, I would have been tossed to the side of the road like a dead dog. She just needed a little time to find enough of a relationship with Mr. Fireman to make the jump a safe one. This is what I still believe. Should I just let him have her, and all her problems? I wonder if Mr. Hunky Fireman would put up with sex every couple months when SHE felt like it? Kinda doubt it.
Just now, that last question was burning in my mind so much that I called my wife at home as she's getting ready for work, and asked her. She said that she'll never know the answer to that question, but then we got into other things, some of which I mentioned above. I found myself crying, something I never do. She said that her guard is up right now, her defenses are up. She said that every feeling I express about her encounter is what she has felt for so long about mine earlier in our marriage. I then asked why she never DID anything about it?! Why live in this pain for so long? She tossed it up to emotional immaturity and fear. She said that she's reading SSM again, and writing down stuff that she loves about me, and what she wants out of a relationship. She says that I fit into that picture for her. She reiterated her happiness about our dinner last night, that I was my old self, the one she fell in love with: smart, funny, handsome.....attractive.
We have plans to meet with our younger daughter at a playground today, then have dinner. I plan to be on my game, regardless of my feelings going in. You can act your way into good feelings, if you want to. It's what I did last night, and what I can do today. It's my job to show her the man she fell in love with, so she can fall in love with him all over again. Gonna be a long day until then though.
You are obsessing about changing a situation that you have little control of. You have done everything that you can to assure her that she is the woman that you want. You want to remain a couple and a family but she is not as sure as you are. You cannot force your will on her, that is not making good decisions by either one of you.
I just keep getting the feeling that the reason that this is going on is her refusal to make peace with the past, and she is giving you a taste of what happenned when things disintegrated between the two of you years ago. I might be totally off base here, but it may have taken her this long to follow this path. She has feelings for you but is not sure what they are right now. Don't force her into making a decision too quick. She may resent that, too.
I know that you don't know if you can trust her to give up the other guy, but sometimes you have to take that leap of faith. There was a deadline of Dec. 1st and she supposedly called him to end their affair. That should be encouraging to you.
She may not be able to jump into your arms right now, but at least she is willing to listen and to attend events with you. That is making an effort that you should encourage but not force. If you keep pushing so hard, it might backfire on you. Back off a bit and give her some breathing space. You want her to come back to you because she loves you, not because she is scared that you are stalking her. (Okay, stalking might be a bit strong, but do you see my point?)
Meet her at the playground with the kids, be gentle and try to let the anger of the situation out before you meet her. If you show up with anger, that can poison the entire encounter, and your girls don't deserve to see their parents like this.
Get into some counseling right away, both of you, either separately or together as you both need help to sort this situation out no matter what happens. You both need to talk to someone because the emotions are too raw.
She admits that she still sees you in her life, but her guard is up. If you back off, she might feel like letting her guard down some.
Okay, Johanna. I will take your advice, although it will be hard. Faith is easier said than done. I think she ended it, I hope she ended it. But I can't help but think she hasn't, that I cannot compare to this guy, no matter how handsome she thinks I am. I want to just call her and say *I'm cutting you loose so you can have him*, but she did say she wants to work on this, so I will take her at her word, for now.
I called a therapist to try and see him, or at least talk to him. I doubt I can see him till next week. Figures...when I need it most, it's a 4-day weekend. AHHHHHHH!!!!!
Hi Cloudnine I agree with Johanna. You are doing all the right things. Your wife will choose you over that creep or she would not have said so right away like that. It's good you are going to see a therapist but you can also talk to her about your feelings if you do so sensitively. I think she will understand you need some more reassurance if you say so. Why not ask her if you two could spend some more time together.
