K this thread really needs to be renamed after my apartment drama rather than my relationship nondrama. Maybe I should move to a housing / tenant / landlord board. Wonder if there is one? Hmmml.... The place in Weehawken NJ with the gorgeous views just called me and dropped the price $400. I told him I'm looking at some places tomorrow that are less than that and he said to call again before I take something. Looks like he may be getting ready to make a deal I may not be able to refuse. This positive thinking thig is working already. It's still hard to know if Jersey is a good idea. Worst case scenerio, Brooklyn is always here waiting to come back to. He wants a 2 yr lease tho. and that can be a long time if I hate being on that side of the Hudson. And it's really really far away from Mark and his entire circle. I may never run into him or see him again. And the notion of dating from 2 apts. would not be a very easy idea anymore. Who has the crystal ball around here? The suspense is killing me. What's going to happen?
I do. If you go back to my threads you will see I was called a witch, many many times...
So, you are getting the best possible apartment,and what do you know? The next door neighbor is a G. Clooney clone and is immediately smitten by you. You are stuck with Mark but one night that you agree to go out with the next door guy, you realise he is great fun. Soon, YOU are smitten with him too. In a few words, listen to the man from India. We get signs form different places. Dont ignore them.
Doesnt it feel good to KNOW things will turn out fine? K
To me love is committment to the relationship despite occasional differences. To Mark love is respect, more important than the love itself. We failed each other.
Last time I moved I closed the door to xh when I did. It was not proper dbing that I told him - I've kept the door & my heart open to you. When I leave our home, both are closing. If you have any doubts or 2nd thoughts, speak before my moving date or it will be a lost cause. - Of course he didn't believe I would ever close the door, he continued to call and bother me, but I was already seeing Mark and was quite serious about no more chances with the ex. A year later he resurfaced and was suffering from remorse and regret. Too late, way too late. At that time I considered Mark a doll. He was a rock & things were going very well with him. I know it didn't work to give the exh an ultimatum. I know it's not a good stategy, but I am tempted to put the cards on the table to Mark. Telling him I have been open to reconciliation, but that I will bury him in my past when I move unless he indicates any interest. Even if he says, maybe but I need more time. If he's still resolved to live without me because he feels I didn't respect his wishes once, then I am letting go and not looking back.
You can do that, R, but make sure that is what you want to do and that you are ready for any answer. If not, keep DBing.
It is a double edged sword. Some come back if they think they are really going to lose you, and some already have their mind made up. That is why I DB'd for so long...figuring that I really wasn't sure of what I wanted. And that is where you need to be before you close the door.
Think about it hard before you do...
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
Yeah, good advice. Once again. I doubt that pressure is what is going to bring him around. What gives me some indication that there is hope is a few comments he's made. 1. b4 he actually moved when I initially suggested we could keep seperate residences but not have to break up. He answered, " I don't know right now. I just need to get into my new place and get on with my life and see what I think. I just don't know what to say to that except maybe." 2. after he left I let him go and process for a couple months. I thought this gave some time for his pride to shrink and for him to miss me. then the next several times I saw him, I asked if he'd see me if I called him. He would look very hurt and confused and would shrug or ask why should we get together. I would answer cuz I still love you, I don't know how you feel, but if you love me too we still have a chance to fix this. He never said no. He didn't say yes, but he looked conflicted and borderline ready to cave. He would hold me quite tenderly when I hugged him. 3. when I finally did ask if he wanted to get together, he explaines that no, he figured I would manipulate the situation and take advantage of the fact that he still loves me to weaken his resolve. He's taking care of his business and his son and he's decided he has no luck with women and is giving that idea up. However, he did add something like - down the road I don't know what might happen or how I'll feel about that idea, but now I'm still upset that you chose a cat over me. I think about it every day and frankly I don't know if I can ever forgive that. 4. in july he confessed that if I'd done anything to stop him he wouldn't have left. It's not a far leap then for me to consider that if he had wanted me to fight for him then, what's so different now. If I fight for him now he may see it as the sign he's waited for. So that's 3 times that he mentioned that MAYBE in the future he would consider reconciling. That's quite different than a flat " no I'm moving on" And he admitted he had wanted me to do something to help him back off his ultimatum.
The house situation is so stressful and it feels like a new chapter, particularily if I leave the neighborhood. It seemed like a good time for a final attempt and then give him up and move on if he is still of this mind. New house, new life. But then I would have to be prepared to accept whatever he says. Maybe it's better to continue dbing and see what happens. Or I should say start dbing! I have only taken the tiniest baby steps. I can't say it seems to be working either. But then I don't know what he felt or thought when he last saw me playing the role of a happy fun person and not the miserable broken hearted woman he saw previous to that.
I'm seeing a few apts. again today. I am very hopeful about the one next door. That would be such an easy move. And I could continue to torture my horrid upstairs neighbor from this safe location! Just kidding, I don't do anything wrong that caused him to hate me, besides occupy the apt that he covets.
Today I recieved a letter from the city. They were here to inspect the bldg for my complaints and claimed they left a note attached to the front door asking me to call and reschedule. More evidence that the upstairs neighbor is up to something covert. He had to have removed the notice. If i hadn't gotten the letter an called them today they would have dropped the complaints. So he is interferring on the LL's behalf. Just as I suspected. I've been driven to the point of considering vindictive actions, like opening the moldy freezer in the basement and turning on the HVAC. Even thought about physically planting the mold inside the HVAC or in the bldg vents. I'm not this kind of person, but the situation is clearly getting to me. Feeling positive about the apt. next door. Not too sure about moving to Jersey. Even at the discounted rate, it's going to be more than I spend now between increased transportation expense and that utilities aren't included.
I'm so grateful to have this thread to think & talk too much on. And I so appreciate the helpful input. Everyone is so kind and generous here. I remember that from my last stint on these boards. At least I'm not in infidelity section now. That was brutally painful. I hope to never experience that again.
Sometimes DBing is all about the baby steps. I cannot tell you how many times I backslid in the beginning, and my stbx accused me of the same thing...trying to manipulate the situation. And at first, he was right. But eventually he was wrong, and although I did want to resolve our issues, I also respected the fact that he didn't.
Pressure will push someone away fast. No more relationship talks. This is very hard. Because we are theoretically the injured party, we want answers, but they are answers that may never come. Pushing is not going to get answers, but only more questions. And it is frustrating.
I think one of the biggest pluses is to go on like he is not coming back. This does not mean you have to date or anything like that, but don't worry about what he might think. You are entitled to have your own life now. This was his decision, not yours, so let him live with it a little.
((((Hugs)))))
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
very good question. In our history, there was one time he moved out for 2 wks because he found me out having drinks w xh and he flipped. I called him every day, and asked for a chance to see him. I told him I didn't want to ask him back, just wanted a chance to explain myself. When he came, I showed him the email i'd sent xh telling him to leave me alone & respect boundries. I handed him a letter where I apologized, acknowledged, spoke honestly about my feelings, vowed to not repeat the mistake, and told him if he ever gave me a chance I would prove myself worthy of it. I asked for his help with my codependent problem with my x, assured him I was not interested in reconciling with x. That was fighting. He went against his nature and did something he'd never given any other woman in his life - a 2nd chance. He asked me to write to him about what love means to me and I took that homework very seriously and gave him a very detailed thoughtful letter about love, and we . discussed it at length. Although he came back, he has always been a bit stingy with his affection since then, and he has several times mentioned how painful the picture of me & xh sitting together is and it sticks in his mind. In July he says he probably never fully forgave me for that betrayal. (Mind you, I was in an outdoor cafe haveing a drink, surrounded by people. I did not have sex w/ xh) I was relentlessly calling him. He wouldn't answer, I'd just call again & again. He had his friend who works with him answer and he's say mark want to know what you want, I'd reply - I want to talk to him. I wore him down until he agreed to come talk to me. I think that is fighting for us.
Another time he was mad and said he was going to move out. I told him I would not stop him if that's truly what he wanted, but that I wanted him to stay. I told him I wanted to spend my life with him and want to be hand in hand with him in old age. He admitted within hours that he just couldn't bring himself to leave me and he wanted to be with me too. That was fighting.
This time, he gave me 2 wks to rehome the new cat or he'd leave. I did nothing. Things were normal between us during the 2 wks. At the end of the time period, he asked what I'd decided about the cat. I told him I didn't want to see him go, but that if he's making me choose, I choose the cat. (if you remember he'd been sick & miserable & I was fed up w/ his attitude.) I just sat back and let him pack & move, thinking I could reach out to him after he left and felt I'd still have a powerful influence on him. Now he's said, if I'd taken any action to persuade him to back down, he would have stayed. Instead I was bringing home apt. listings for him and offering furniture that he may like to take. So fighting for him now - I don't know exactly. It would be letting him know how much I miss him. Telling him how sorry I am that I disrespected his feelings. I would have to promise to never hurt him like when I said I prefer the cat. I'd have to show him I am looking out for his interest and be considerate. I would appeal to his emotions. I think that he would consider that I'm fighting for us if I did these things. So far, I've told him I miss him. Told him I still love him. Told him I'm sorry that I went about the cat adoption all wrong. Asked if he'd be interested to see me sometime. And finally asked if he would get together. I was pretty stunned when he didn't want to see me. After that I have been trying to come back to the db strategy. Last summer he told me he pictured us together for the rest of life. And before he moved he told me he'd told his friends that after we survived a couple near breakups, that he couldn't imagine anything that could split us up. He told them he was tied to me permanently. And that betraying his ultimatum about the cat was the one thing that he never expected and the one thing that could send him away.
He has a terrible childhood history, which he'd never admit cause him to behave this way. Every other gf he's ever had he's walked out at the 1st problem and never looked back. So he has no experience in working through problems. I'm the only woman he ever stayed with after a problem. He was amazed and felt he bent one of his prided principles to be with me after "my mistake". He says I'm the only woman he's ever loved.
I think he wants to know he's loved above all else, esp. a pet. He wants to feel safe, because he's never had that in his entire life. So fighting for him would have to mean showing him he's loved and making him feel secure.
But all those ideas are anti-db. I'll stick with this for now, because my notion that I had some profound affect on him and could win him back is not proved correct. I'm going to have to give it much more time than I thought. I had figured we'd be together by summer. But clearly this is going to be a tough nut to crack. So I will continue to use this strategy, it's best for me either way anyway. I have time. So long as we're alive, there is hope.
I need to find a new home. I think that is the only urgent issue at hand.
Just learned a friend took his life lastnight. I'm feeling a lot of mixed emotions. I am angry at him. And terribly sad. And some guilt that I didn't know he was in need. I'm reeling and trying to process, it's quite impossible to sink in as yet. Doesn't seem right. It is changing my perspective on nearly everything. I'm at work, but I am aching and feel like I'm in some void or alternate reality.
Yet another reminder that tomorrows are not promised. Yesterdays are gone. All we have is right now. I am so lucky to be turning 50 when so many people I've known didn't make it. Being older is a privledge and a blessing. Too bad our culture suffers from ageism. It truly is a miracle to be alive.
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. I always think that these types of deaths are the hardest to understand comprehend for the family and friends left behind. The emotions of anger that they did this and sadness that they are gone are very common.
I like your attitude about feeling lucky to be turning 50 - I feel the same way and would never want to miss out on the next 30 or so years - I plan to make them the happiest years of my life.
