Having simlar thoughts here myself. I was packing last night to go back to friends house and he just ignored that I was leaving. Being ignored has been a big problem as I just have not felt cherished for a long time. It has been a bad twelve hours or so for me.
We are not losers, my dear, we just have spouses that have no idea what they are trying so hard to lose by ignoring us. When and if we make the big decision to make it official and leave for good maybe then they will understand. I have tried to stay and live with this relationship, but I get little in return.
He is a good man, just oblivious to what I need in a relationship. I can't be any more clear, either. He still has not gotten back into counseling, he is stalling on that front, too.
I keep hoping that he will wake up from his denial that I will leave and not come back if things don't change dramatically, but I can't love him into making a change for me. Crappy decisions to try and make.
Weather here is like my mood, dark and dreary.
You will have to let us know about the decorating decisions that you make. Lava lamps? How kistchy. Been watching Christopher Lowell for decorating ideas?
I'm feeling very tired today. Not getting enough sleep. Can't wait to get into my own place this weekend, after a month of living like a vagabond.
Lowell is good, but also just a tad too safe for me. Imagine Lowell with a twist of funk and/or psychedelic, and plenty of candles scattered about (I enjoy natural light, and the way candlelight creates dances of light and shadow).
I am intrigued by this comment you made: we just have spouses that have no idea what they are trying so hard to lose by ignoring us. What did you mean by this? I want to understand it. For some reason it has touched a nerve. I feel that my wife ignores giving me what I want, but that she also is afraid of losing me. Is it because she doesn't want to be alone, or because she loves me? She knows she is denying me, but why??? It is the riddle of this relationship.
Lately, I am doing my utmost to be kind to her, attentive to her requests for time with the girls when she can't handle them, and going to the house tomorrow morning at 6am so she can take someone to the airport. The answer to almost everything is *yes*, but I do so in a very sort of professional, guarded manner. I share my feelings and thoughts with my friends. Can you relate when I say that I'm afraid to reach out to her? Can she ever be the woman I need her to be for me? Would I be happier being alone than being with her the way things are? Just more of my daily questions I run through my tortured head.
Have a good day. Hope it's brighter since your last missive.
The answer to the $64,000 question. Or should we adjust the prize money to be more reflective of inflation for the past 40 years? Perhaps should be a million dollar question.
Seems as if our respective spouses love us in their own distant way. We need more from them, physically, emotionally and they cannot understand that. Frustrating to all of us, but most palpable to us, since we are the emotional partner in the relationship. Found this this morning that explained lots to me. Insight from someone else in our shoes:
" I've been lurking on this forum for a long time, but reading your thread has brought me out of hiding. I, too, am a HD wife with a LD husband. My sitch was quite similar to yours in several respects - our sexual frequency was never where I wanted it to be, my H struggled silently with depression for years which decreased his desire, and the lack of sexual intimacy really did a number on my self-esteem.
I use the past tense because our situation just became more and more tense, until I finally moved out in Sept 2002. We are still married and we have been in marriage counseling since I moved out, but sadly we have made no progress on "the sex thing" during the past 14 (!) months.
Some things I've learned...
I feel better having more distance from my H. Since he doesn't seem to desire me, I would rather not live with him. It was just too painful to be with someone I love so dearly and feel so rejected all the time. I'm not advocating that you move out - I do believe that moving out is an absolute and desperate last resort and that all other avenues should be explored first.
Joint marriage counseling has helped us. Counseling has provided us with scheduled time to talk about our relationship with a neutral third party. The conversations H and I would have about sex (before I moved out) were too charged with emotion to be constructive. Counseling provides a "safe" place for us to talk about difficult subjects - and I found that it is a great reality check since my tendency is to blame myself for my H's lack of desire. Hearing someone else say "it's not about you" has helped me deal with the pain I felt throughout our SSM. If you can at all get your H into counseling, do so. I had to move out before my H would agree to see a counselor with me.
Try not to take this personally. Oh how I wish I could really wrap my brain around this point! I know it's really hard. I've found that being with people who love me (friends, family), pampering myself and doing things that I enjoy have helped me slowly build my self-esteem. To be frank, I still struggle with low PMA days and bad self-esteem, but it's much better now than it was a year ago.
I guess I wrote this post simply to tell you that I hear and understand where you are coming from. The despair that a HD wife feels in a SSM is absolutely crushing. If you need an empathetic ear, I'm listening.
Flicker"
I think Flicker summarized where I am right now. It's not just the sex but the entire lack of intimacy and emotional involement that has really thrown me. Rejection and pain are not good bedfellows. It hurts a bit less if I am not around, but I have been gone for a short time. We desire a complete, fulfilling marriage and our spouses just can't open up to that.
It's hard to be kind and supportive to them when they are not to us, but we keep trying. I really do not want a divorce, but the pain of rejection from my H is too sharp.
Friends are great sounding boards but they can only help and listen so much. AS far as happier being alone, I'm struggling with that, too. I think that it is too soon for either of us to make a good decision in that regard. Do not make life changing decisions in chaos. We need to let things calm down some before we make up our minds.
I saw that post last night. You honed in on it the same way that I did. Some people can express their feelings about this situation so much better than I can, and this is another example. It's always been so problematic for me to convey to my wife how much I need her sexually. We always get into an argument, or I walk away believing I'm a sex-crazed pervert for wanting sex with my wife.
We're supposed to be positive on this billboard, but I'm going thru a period of pain and reflection now, and I guess I'm feeling a little guilty for expressing it here. Hang in there with me, and be good to yourself.
TA-DAHHHHH!!!!!!!! Here I am, ready to spread my disgusting never-ending optimism!!! Has your lucky day hit or WHAT!?
Do not roll your eyes, but I have a book for both of you, if you have not already read it. "The Power of Your Subconscious Mind," by Josephy Murphy. I know, I know, another damn book to read. It's short!! I know it may sound kookie, but I swear to GAWD it really works.
If you cannot bring yoursevles to read yet ANOTHER feel-good-about-yourself book, then tell me, what ELSE are you going to do to fill your time? Hmmm?! Besides go out and buy lava lamps and scented candles...
Tell me three great things that have happened to you both today. Chop, chop, clock is running.
When all else fails, remember to breathe deeply, in and out, three times. And if you are still feeling so-so, do it again. Helps to center you.
Seriously, I think of you both often and wish I could wave my magic wand and make it all better. Wouldn't you know I set it down and for the life of me, I can't find the f%@cking thing anywhere!
I'm glad that my post struck a chord with you, Cloudnine and Johanna, since yours have really hit home with me. It's astonishing how similar our experiences have been and how much I can relate to what the two of you are feeling.
I don't know about the two of you, but when I moved out I was hoping that my H would "see the light". That he would finally take me and my needs seriously, and work with me to repair our relationship. Of course, in my mind "repair" meant more intimacy and more sex.
What I found is that, instead, after I left he made no effort to pursue me. Over the past 14 mos, I've initiated the lion's share of contact and have been the proactive one when it comes to scheduling fun "date time" for the two of us. Talk about a blow to the ego - I feel like I'm pursuing him (again)!
I'm still hoping for our marriage, but without him putting effort into it I don't see how we can stay together. I'm just getting too tired of putting energy into our relationship, waiting for him to wake up and do something constructive.
Ugh, I feel like a font of negativity and that's not what I want to convey here. What I want to say is this: don't move out expecting your spouse to miraculously see your point of view and change. I did, and I was sorely disappointed. Move out because you need to for YOU. It turned out that moving out was the right decision for me (because I did feel less pain), but that wasn't my primary motivation at the time.
Cloud, Jo, Flicker, you are all echoing the words my son said to me in a conversation recently. He has a father who he needs to pursue him, to put forth some effort into solving the problems in his relationship. I used to need the same thing from the man in our marriage.
I see you guys doing terrible things to yourself because you are, more than likely interpreting your spouses behavior in the very opposite of how they really feel. Some people are so massively passive about their own lives and own needs that they are paralyzed when it comes to taking action.
Cloud, I read your wife this way. She seems to be someone who is terrified of losing you but so unequipped at making the changes you need that she is living a self-fulfilling prophesy. She is making her own worst nightmare come true through her own passivity. To me that does not equal a lack of love for you but a lack of something in herself that helps her get the love she so desperately wants...you.
Jo, Flicker, I lived with a LD husband. He was a fine man up to a point. When it came to pursuing me he was completely lost. Living without me was easier than the discomfort caused by having to put his emotions out there and possibly have them trampled on. Example....when he ask me to marry him he did it drunk out of his mind. During our marriage the only times he ever really opened up to me and told me what he really felt was when he was drunk. He had to drink his courage. I had the same feelings you 2 do. If he cared he would pursue. I spoke to a girlfriend who was spending a lot of time with him during a time we were separated. She said all he talked about was me. She said she got tired of hearing it and finally told him if he didn't go get me he was going to drive her crazy.
My ex husband has not seen or spoken to either one of his children in 8 months. It's contemptable behavior but I know the fool well enough to know it's driven by fear and not a lack of love for his boys. We cross into dangerous territory when we start telling ourselves someone can't do something or doesn't care about something just because they are not reacting the exact way we think they should or wish they should. It works against you in solving the problems.
People get entrenched and there are those who never make a positive move in their own favor. Being stuck in a passive way of dealing with your problems doesn't mean you can't love as deeply as the person you are letting down though. Could be sometimes we ask things of people they just aren't able to give us, could be sometimes we just haven't figured out how to help them feel safe giving us what we need. Cathy
Quote: We're supposed to be positive on this billboard, but I'm going thru a period of pain and reflection now, and I guess I'm feeling a little guilty for expressing it here. Hang in there with me, and be good to yourself.
I find the best thing about this BB is that you can find someone on here who will understand what you are going thru. It is also nice to get different peoples points of view on your sitch of course and they may often see things you have not seen because you are too involved. Anyway my point is that while others may advise you to try and see things in a more positive light that doesn't mean to say you should write positive stuff if you are not feeling that way. Putting down your real feelings about the difficult sitch we all find ourselves in can be very helpful to other people also in pain. Later if by chance you were to discover some way to talk to your little tank of pirahna fishes that she could understand it would make it all the more meaningful to people looking for their own solutions.
I have always suspected that you are secretly working as a salesperson for a large publishing company because you recommend so many books! LOL You are just trying to make commissions, you sly fox, you...
You LOST your magic wand? OMG, is the world going to end? We really miss you when you are away for awhile, welcome back.
Thanks to all that offer their experiances and advice here. I know that I am not crazy but there are many days that I feel like I am going crazy. My H has not pursued so far, and I doubt if he will. If he does not have to face me then he does not have to reach into the bag of emotions and he just won't do that. C'est la vie.
Took yesterday afternoon off and slept which I really needed. Feel better today but trying to learn to live in limbo. Not really married, not really anything else either. Oh boy, what tangeled webs our lives do lead.
Cloudy, hope you got some rest, too. It really helps make one feel better when you are not so exhausted. Have you chosen a color scheme for the pimping pad? Candles are great but the scented ones make me sneeze. Why do I get the feeling that the focal point of your new pad will be the boudoir?
I agree with Jiji that you do not have to present a positive light when you can't see in the dark. That's why we are out here, to guide each other to a light and hold onto our sanity.
In relationships, we somehow conclude that others are the source of love, and that we have to bargain for that love. We learned this at our earliest ages. In order to gain the acceptance of parents, teachers, playmates, and religious leaders, we learned to deny our truth and accept theirs. The first truth we had to deny was the truth that we came into this world through Love, as Love, being Love. We came into this world knowing no fear, no judgement, no conditions, and had no expectations. We simply WERE.
If we believe that love is a commodity that lives outside of ourselves, and that we have to be good or get it right to earn and receive that love from someone, we will suffer. There will always be the undercurrent of fear -- the fear that we will not be good enough or will not do it right enough, and we will never be open to receive the love we are trying to get.
Try out this new agreement: "My nature is Love. I am the source of Love in my life." Know that Love flows through you as Life itself, as that Divine nature that is in and through all of Creation. There is no where that it is not. And it is in and through YOU. It is your nature. It is now, and it always has been what you are. Today, instead of going into your world looking for sources of love, attention, or appreciation, try going out there wondering where you can share YOUR love. How many ways can you say "I love you" to all of Creation today?
This was written by someone else, but as always, finding our HOPE is what I believe sustains us through our most trying days, our most trying times, our most trying adversities.
You all are perfect, loving beings exactly as you are.
