Cloudnine, your W sounds like an odd woman to me. Her name isn't Sybill is it?
Have you read some of the other threads on here where they talk about detaching. I think that is what you need to do. Let her wonder about why you want the table. Put some distance between you. Can you look for a new job, or work out of different offices so you don't have to see her so often. It seems to me like she knows just how to hurt you and she is not above doing so. What I'm saying is move on with your life and if she cares about you she will come after you. Don't keep reaching out to her if she only bites your hand. Stand back and let her see what a good guy you are, and if she can't see that maybe you should look for someone who can.
I know your wife isn't being very nice to you, and I'd never suggest that you become her whipping post (though it may sound like that at times), but try to think of her as a wounded animal... wounded animals are mean, nasty creatures and you are just a bit too close in proximity for her not to take advantage of that. Poor her. Her fog and misunderstanding are bringing about the exact OPPOSITE results she wants, I believe. She's hurting, and she wants you to hurt like her so you'll STOP hurting her.
Makes no sense, does it? A great opportunity for you to practice your empathy, though.
Stop counting nails in the coffin. It's distracting you. This is not a 'three strikes and you're out ballgame.' This is your life. If you really need to file for divorce, you will know when that time is, regardless of how many nails are in the coffin, you know?
No offense, Jiji, but I think Cloud is 'detached' enough. Cloud, think about this one. If you want to save your marriage, try to find enough strength inside yourself to offer your wife some hope. Learn to 'listen' to what she is really saying, not what is coming out of her mouth. There is a lot you can offer her with little to no effort on your part.
When she said it would have been nice had you called to offer her a break instead of waiting until she exploded... well, first let me say that is extremely unfair of her. She's an adult and she needs to learn how to communicate and ask for what she wants. However, from her point of view, you offering a break for her means you are thinking about her and her needs, which equates in her mind that you 'care.'
So when she jumped you about it, all you had to say was, yeah, I wish I had been able to do that for you. I can see how that would have been nice for you.
QUIT DEFENDING YOURSELF.
The table and chairs thing was a shot below the belt. It happens. And when it does, it sucks (refer to my crying bout). Refocus the conversation back onto her, and keep it there.
"Hey, I know you are hurting, and given your complete absence of trust, I can see where this would bother you. Does it make you feel better to say such cruel things to me?"
And if she tries to bring it back around to you, simply say, "We aren't talking about me. What we are talking about is your lack of trust issue, one of the main reasons why we are standing here having this discussion in the first place."
Then walk away. If you think it will help her to take the table and chairs back to the house and you want to do that to help ease her mind, by all means, go for it.
But you continually rising to take the bait is only increasing her confusion and fueling her mistrust. You getting defensive gives her reason to believe there is something to defend. Help her Cloud!! Reassure her when you can, and keep the focus on HER. This is the only way she is going to be able to start examining herself and her own motives.
Easier said than done, I know, but you are one heck of a smart guy. Think of it as high powered negotiating. You would never let 'cattiness' on the part of a client or competitor goad you into responding in an equally catty way because you know to do so will weaken your position and threaten the deal. So in order to avoid return cattiness, you stay focused on the goal, right?
Hello!! Trivial ass sh!t like the location of a table and chairs is a distraction, and I don't care what tone of voice it was said in... don't defend yourself, zero in on her hurt and...
<<<<<<<<<<<< STAY FOCUSED ON THE GOALLLLLLL >>>>>>>>>>>
Aren't you glad I'm such a bright, upbeat, cheery woman? Yeah, me too.
Cloudnine please feel free to ignore my advice. I said this because I don't like to hear about you feeling so miserable. I'm no expert on Marriage tho if I give advise it should probably come with some kind of a health warning!! I mostly like to advise people to be forgiving of their partners mistakes. I don't know why I don't feel this way about your sitch. Well perhaps I do I just don't think you should let yourself get hurt. When I talk about detachment I don't mean you shouldn't see her. Check out this advice from JJ LRT advice I think this is the sort of thing you could be aiming for.
That link is incredible! It will be a good reference for me to return to, especially if I'm going off in a wrong direction. I appreciate the link, and your advice.
Speaking of advice, my partner in crime, Corri, continues to help me stay focused. Thank you, Cori. I must say that being separated from my wife makes it easier to detach lovingly, if I can put it that way. With each *confrontation* with her, I do better each time in NOT letting her draw me into something where I am defensive. If I go into it, even a little bit, I step away if needed, then come back later when I have a clear head and finish the conversation in a more loving manner.
Given my busy job situation, and my marital status, people ask me constantly, in a concerned way, how I'm doing. Honestly, I feel better than I have felt in a long time. My spirits, generally, are pretty good lately. It's a nice feeling, and I don't have that knot in my gut when I'm around my wife.
Can I ante up with an opinion? Keep listening to Corri cause I think she is right on the money.
Your description of your wife's concern over the table was interesting. What I wonder is how she would view what she said to you. My ex once told me that I could "wound him deeply with the most casual statement." I thought he was crazy but now realize that even the most casual word can hurt someone deeply.
This is what I see going on with you and your wife. You two are trying your damnedest to communicate. You are both getting lost in the stories you tell yourself though. Your wife new you took the table and chairs, she knew your purpose for them so she started telling herself all kinds of stories for why you had them with you. She started thinking and built herself up this huge, hurtful scenario and there she was feeling very defensive. Now, she might say that her talk with you should not have been hurtful to you, that she had a right to feel the way she does and have the suspicions she does. It all comes from the stories she tells herself. She simmers in it for a bit and then comfronts you. Her tone is less that pleasing to you and you start telling yourself stories about her and how unreasonable she is. You guys are tied up into the same style of communication over and over again. What you are trying to say to each other is not really based on true events. You both end up feeling defensive and walking away scratching your head wondering what is wrong with the other.
I imagine she feels the same amount of exasperation for you that you feel for her. She probably thinks you are just as unreasonble and hard to deal with as you believe she is. Somebody has to learn to break the cycle you two are in. It's like Corri says, you have to stop defending yourself. Her accusations and defensiveness come from things that are not true, not even close to the true issue and the longer you continue to defend yourself the longer she will hold onto her old way of reacting to the things she is feeling.
It's a hard habit to break but until you do you guys will never do anything but dance around the issues and use negative emotions to further escalate things.
I think she is trying. I think she feels as if she is trying. I think you are way more advanced right now than she is. Plus, you have all us insightful women to help you along. How lucky can one man get?!?! It is time for a "LRT" but it needs to be done in the way you communicate. I will echo Corri, "STOP DEFENDING YOURSELF.' Time for some new patterns of communication. Cathy~
Girl, I know how you feel about C9's wife; if I could hop on a plane to L.A. with an industrial size can of WHOMP ASS -- and then find her -- well, I'd come home with an empty can, know what I mean?
We all feel protective of one another, and I think that is one of the very best things that happens on these boards. So if I came across sounding like your advice was BAD, I certainly did not intend that. There have been more times than one where I have been very tempted to tell people to tell THEIR SPOUSES to take a gigantic flying leap out the nearest window. So, I know the feeling.
And you, dear girl, get the HUGE KUDO points award for the 'find of the day.' Awesome, awesome link to the LRT info.
Ever heard of Keb Mo? I have a great theme song for you, great for reminding yourself to be empathetic, etc. It's a song called Just Like You. If you know it already, then you have amazing taste in music. If you haven't, then you can listen to the MP3 there, too (I'm pretty sure I got it in there correctly).
Feeling very sad today. Between work stuff and the home stuff, I'm starting to crack. Hopefully, tomorrow will be better. My wife and I were in a meeting together at work today, and I could barely make eye contact with her. Also, now that we agreed to a sharing arrangement with our younger daughter, she sent me a detailed email, like a *deal memo*, outlining the arrangement....just so that there's no misunderstandings. The detail is one thing, it's the corporate feel of the email I found off-putting.
Cathy has the *dance* between the wife and I nailed. It really is a dance, and I have referred to it as such to my friends And you're also right that we have no idea how to break the cycle of this bad communication. I expect relationships to be hard, but I wonder...should any relationship be as hard as mine is? We have to work so much at this, and we just end up in the same place.
I'll be back on tomorrow morning, and will check Corri's mp3 file. I think I recognize it, but need to listen to it.
Oh, stop. You are tired, you are stressed, you are not living in your home, and your marriage is up in the air. Your emotions are going to be all over the board regardless of how your wife talks or even looks at you.
Chalk it up to a bad day and move on. Today may be better. If she sends you more corporate emails and gives you more business talk... she's trying to keep herself composed and emotionally distant from you. Try not to read too much into it, like Cathy said.
I'm headed out of town and I'll be back tomorrow. Keep your chin up. Hope you could get to the MP3. Lemme no.
I could almost ditto your post as far as the emotions and feelings go. Feel like a vagabond since I have been traveling the past two weekends and staying with friends. I hate living out of a suitcase. I am home this week since the H is out of town for work and I am taking care of the dog. I miss her, but she is the "other woman" in his life that he pays more attention to. The second "other woman" is his job, and I know how many men place their entire self worth with their job.
Had a long and tough conversation with H last night. Seems that I should stick a fork in this relationship. He is deep in denial about our problems and is scared to make any changes. I deserve more and he knows it.
My gut keeps telling me that this is as good as it will ever get in this M. But I am miserable and desperately unhappy because the only thing that I have asked my H for, he will not do for me. I need and want the passion and desire in my marriage. That is too much for our LD spouses to give to us. Sometimes I wonder if we should all "swap" our respective spouses and see what that would do. I digress but could go on ad-nauseum.
I have seen Keb Mo perform. Great entertainer and I like his music.
Cloud, It's a rough day for both of us, but it's nice to know that we are not alone trying to cope. Thanks..
