Fall and Cat, You both have had front row seats to the early puberty years of your hs. Yes, they will question you about whether or not you think they need to see a shrink. Deep down, they know something is off kilter and will ask you. Will they do something about it? Nope. They continue to run a muck until the stretch of train track is gone.
I know it's very difficult to sit back and watch the drama play out, but that's what you have to do. You have an adult/child living under your roof. The only thing you can do is take care of your real children, yourself and your finances. As for your adult/child....let him go out there and do whatever he needs to do to grow up.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Snodderly, thanks so much for jumping in so quickly with your timely advice!
Wish I could be more hopeful about H`s drama ending BEFORE separation happens. But he`s still barreling down that road.
He`s made an appt yesterday to see mediators for us to start negotiating separation. the only good thing about it is that he hasn`t opted for private mediation so it could take 3months for that appointment to come through.
I suspect its another tactic to draw me in and upset me. He`s tried anger, sadness, feigned madness, now he`s going for separation.
I reacted calmly.Just said ok. He left and then came back with a thanks for the apology I made the other night. I complimented him on being so brave for bringing up the subject of our relationship this past while.
Sorry Snodderly, meant to put Thanks Snodderly in the subject area of above post. I know you`re very busy on these boards helping everyone out so I really appreciate that your stopped by with some wisdom for me!
I`m interested to read about your H not guiding S through puberty as much as you`d like. I see the same trait in H. My theory about it is that they`re so wrapped up in themselves their totally unable to see their kids or anyone else.
Our D had bad tummy pains which I told H about, suspecting appendix or herna. But he hasn`t mentioned it once since! Itsd incredible really as the bottle of painkiller is plainly on view and we rarely use it. Surely he must wonder who is sick? But no.
He always lacked empathy though. Just got much worse in this phase of his life.( I`m wary of even calling it MLC anymore...)
The only one who seems to upset him is his mother. He gets tearful when he sees how cut up she is over us. (And boy, that woman can lay it on in spadefuls...)
She`s not so cut up though, that she actually wants to see him-he`s still not allowed home.I don`t get that bit either. I`d hate to cut off my kids for any reason.
Anyway, as you can see from my post to Snodderly, H is barreling ahead with separation. He made set the ball rolling with a phone call to mediators to start our spearation negotiations. Told me I had to call them too.
Thanks for your praise re my comments. I`ve got so much help here it`s good to help someone else though I`m afraid, depsite my experience in this field that I`ll get someone on the wrong track.Jump in if I do! You`re waaay ahead of me on dbing!
Have to say I`m really getting happier in myself. I met a lot of my work colleagues yesterday and got lots of praise re how well I`m looking etc.I feel great. Best in years in fact.Its been so good to be so selfish this past while. And its really true that our H`s notice everything even though they don`t say.
H actually asked me about my work yesterday-did I mind being back. I told him how good it was to meet everyone again after the long hols. I was upbeat and happy.And then I left the room.
He`s gonna have to find another boat to rock cos he`s not rockin this one!
How far along the road did you get to separation Cat? Did your H seek it or you? Oh and don`t answer if you don want to!
I`m laughing at the hypochondria! Yip, sounds very very familiar!
Hope you`re having lots of fun yourself Cat! That`s what really gets me through this.
Your S is a similar age to mine if I recall correctly. Mine not looking to shave or drive yet though!Good luck with that!
Want to say thanks to Snodderly as well. I am always interested in your take on things as you seem to be able to see all of it very clearly.
FG,
We got this far in S. We live in different rooms. I am not suppossed to ask him about anything, because "what business is it of mine anymore?" For a long time he asked me nothing, but snooped everything to find out. Then he started asking our S. Now, I don't know. Sometimes he asks me, he always tells me what he is doing (maybe waiting for me to scream, maybe to inform, who knows) I actually asked something yesterday and three hours later he went searching for the answer to give it to me. By then I had forgotten the question. LOL.
I will not seek or desire for separation or D right now. As I really started to heal and focus on things beside H, my desire for something to happen, be it reconciliation, separation, or whatever diminished greatly. But that does not mean it may not be a choice for me to make down the road. I accept that as well.
I hope your D is feeling better. I am going to suspect it may be more the stress than the other unless she is running a high fever. But if it persists much longer, please see a doctor. When my parents D, I was 9, and I had horrible stomach problems that I had never had before.
I only answer what I feel like answering and I am thoughtful in my answers, so as not to reveal too much. If he is reading now, which is really my concern, I don't believe I have said anything more than the simple truth, my feeling are my feelings no matter who likes them, and I generally don't report daily activities. In the past, when I was angry (yes I still have my moments), I wrote about everything that I was angry about. Most of it was him, his family, things that occured in our life. Yes these are things I believe he should know about, but it just added fuel to his fire of anger (he was where your H is/was recently). So although then I was being truthful, almost too truthful, him reading it created more strife. And I felt almost violated in some ways. But it was our pattern of interaction at that point. I refuse to give him much to work with anymore. Only what I choose LOL. Because I figure if he is gonna have ammo, then it might as well be the ammo then it might as well be the ammo of my choice.
Your H's mother is still trying to control him. Of course she wants to see him, he is her son. But he is doing something that she doesn't want him to do, so she is punishing him for it. My wonderful MIL, tried to do that with H almost as soon as she got back in touch with him. Here is how it went. She got angry (we did nothing), no contact with anyone for a year. Then a card to our S, thinking that would open the door. Well, I did the right thing and called to thank her. No one else bothered. Four months later, a drunken phone call. Then a phone call from a friend saying MIL was dying (now we are onto the guilt). No contact from anyone. She finally broke down and called H directly. They had a few short talks, she asked him to do a few things for her, he was too busy but provided alternate ideas. A string of angry drunken emails re:their horrible relationship. More guilt to H. No contact for about 6 weeks, then a guilt and apology ridden email, no reply. Then attempted contact via email to S again. H replied as S and I were out of town having a blast for the weekend. Then a box of goodies in the mail. Of course H called to say thankyou. Then she started wanting things from him again. Again he was busy with work. We finally saw her the day before she left the state. Said goodbye, filled with her tears, her I love you's to H, just a bunch of crap from her as she spent the entire time we were there barely speaking and talking on the phone to other people. A few text messages regarding her drive up north, then nothing more. Not even a phone call on his birthday, year number 3 of her ignoring that, and he was very upset as he thought they were sort of talking again.
Believe me when I say they try to manipulate their kids. I too have issues with the MLC title, but definately something is going on. Just watching relationship cycle with the parents is indicative of how abnormal this is. As I typed out to you the basic progression of H and MIL (she tried to weasel her way in through S and self first though, which would have been the easier road and has worked very well in the past, with no success), she had no choice but to try to contact him. Anyway, I can clearly see if a major part of his issue. As a mother, I cannot imaging being that way with my own child but my S and I have a very good R. Differences, I WANT my S to grow up and leave. I have wanted that since the day he was born. That is what kids are supposed to do. I WANT to be sure that I have provided him with the tools to be a healthy competent adult, so that I can enjoy him in that capacity as well. I WANT him to have a wonderful joy filled life. I don't believe my MIL ever knew how to want those things for her kids because she just viewed them as parts of herself that would always be under her control. But she carried the attitudes and behaviors of her parents. All of her siblings did. And these are things that have carried down into the younger generations of the family. It is very sad to watch. My S may be the only healthy one that comes out of the whole bunch. I pray for H as well. That he works through all of it.
Maybe your H will eventually go to the doctor. My H just says he has no time. All I can tell him is that if he feels it is important, he will make time. The laundry list of ills is growing weekly. I say nothing much at all. He won't get help, especially for the part that really needs it. LOL.
So sometimes I feel like we are at an impass. I make the hard choices. I don't always follow the DB principals in regard to R. I deal with H as I see fit, in terms of the adult/child. I have set boundaries and am not afraid to enforce them anymore. So I DB for me. Not for him. Not for the M. I don't know that I am completly happy yet, I am content, I have a lot of joy daily, I am comfortable right now. An I keep busy. That definately helps.
Last edited by cat04; 08/25/0909:16 AM.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
D is fine-I think her problemis activity related. Had a physio friend look at it and all`s well for now.
I`m interested in all the similarities between your H and mine Cat-background included. Actually upbringing a huge part of our current problems Cat.
I`m also interested in my role in things. How I contributed to the problem. What I can change.
Right now Im dealing with my need to control. It`s stronger than I thought. I`ve nightmares again and now I know that`s because H has taken the lead and is proceeding down the road of separation.
So, of course, my next post will be about what else can I do to stop this?!
He took the younger two fishing yesterday evening. I`ve no problem with that. Just that it was D`s first time ever to go fishing and DS`s second!
Fraid it makes me angry to see the start of the kids being pawns things in separation.
Oh, and he`s taking DS golfing today. Second time they went golfing this summer even DS goes most days. Oh, and you can guess who does 99% of the taxiing for that...
Don`t want to rehash my whole thread here. Ask questions if you need to to save your reading but briefly
We`ve had a lousy last two years. I`ve started LRT end April. H just got madder the more I detached doing crazy things to draw me in.
He got angry/sad/feigned madness but I stayed calm(apart from a couple of hiccups)
Now he`s started the ball rolling towards separation by making an appt for mediators.
I have told him its his decision-he wanted to pretend it was mutual.
I have yet to confrim with the mediators that I will be available to go. Appointment will probably be in 14 weeks.
He is trying to spend more quality time with the kids.
He has a notion of getting a house close by and having them 50% of the time.I didn`t discuss that though.
I look good, am having fun(he told me it would be better if I looked upset) have made the changes he`s asked for though I haven`t pointed them out. I`m trying to be the change. H has told me that I look fantastic and that its ok for me I`ll be able to get on with my life(when we separate).
I`m going to therapy for the past 9 weeks. Thats been helpful too.
Had a very very similar conversation three months ago after H being sure he didn't want to live with me, if he stayed any longer he would just hate me etc. I made the mistake of thinking he was actually clear that this was what he wanted and that he meant it. DONT ASSume he means it and is 100% clear that it where he is. For us, this was a huge pressure release valve for H once it was out, and one of the big steps in him then being able to start looking at himself as well as me.
My suggestions:
1) Have a clear plan mapped out for if separation goes ahead. The removes much of the fear, its no longer unknown.
2) Don't rush to talk about it with third parties, it still may not happen.
3) Refuse to discuss it at all with H. Try stuff like "we have already spoken about it, there is nothing left to sort out, ohhh is that a recipe for a chocolate cake - COOL!!!!!"
My H has now decided he is not sure what he wants to do, and has started to drop into conversation the odd "so next year when..." stuff. So don't get sucked in once you have looked at your options!!
Oh, and don't tell the kids or others until he has his bags packed on the door step, the more you tell the more his reality is that is happening too (if you can try to stop him telling people, suggesting shrink said its better for kids etc).
Glad to hear D is feeling better. Hope they all had fun fishing. I love to fish.
It is hard to let go of control. You probably didn't FEEL controlling, I know I didn't for the most part, just being responsible. But it is control. You will find where you can really let it go and what you need to still be in control of. I know how hard it was, and believe me I still have to remind myself sometimes, which is why I started with baby steps. I did also try to look at how I got into that role to begin with. Basically, H allowed it. I am not blaming him (and he has his own control/manipulation techniques) but I always made the Dr. appts, paid the bills, instructed what needed to be done around the house, you know, you did it too. Yes it is very interesting. For me, I am still having "kid" issues. I know that I cannot control their R, but I do want to protect S as much as possible, so some days my anger at the way H acts and treats or ignores (didn't know that was an option as a parent) makes me very upset. Those are usually my bad days now.
You can see, nothing happens overnight. H may proceed with the mediation, he may not. Ok so he took a step. 14 weeks is a long time. I would try not to discuss anything about it if you can avoid it, this could just be another way for him to try to ruffle your feathers. But I would have a plan, for your own peace of mind. When I made one for myself, boy that was really the beginning of my change. I had to allow myself to consider what life would be like without H in the picture. What did I want for me? Without consideration for him at all. This was not a way I had ever looked at my life since I was 17. It was liberating.
Keep being the calm, strong person. Keep looking good and being happy. My H tried to convince himself that me being happy was because the M was ending, that he was not a part of my life. I tried to figure out a way to explain to him that wasn't at all what it was, but could never find the right words. So I didn't. I just decided to live it. To be happy when he was around and when he wasn't. To let him see that my happiness had nothing to do with him, and eventually I was able to let him know that I still wanted the M. So don't change that part of you either. Unless it is something you really don't like.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
