My eldest son just moved out there three weeks ago and he is fine, so it is a relief to hear that you are both safe.
Take a mental health day, find some good friends to get crazy with and blow off some steam. Did me a world of good. You need to do this and try to stop the wallowing. It's too easy to wallow and let this consume you, but you are a strong guy that has lots to offer. You just need to get some of the old C9 back. Even if you don't feel like dragging yourself out of the "cave" do it for yourself. Your inner spirit needs a big recharge of joy. That is a good thing.
With my H, even though he knows how much I crave his touch and attention, he always held back, just like your W. It does not mean that they do not love us, it just means that they have issues to resolve, and that was a tough realization for me to come to. I am willing to be patient and see if he tries, but felt like I have to change the dynamics to force him to do so. She is working on this, but it will take time. She is also in pain about your sit, so she is lashing out at you. Understand that it is her pain and frustration talking. She sounds like she is as lost as you feel right now. It is easy to say things to each other that is hurtful or painful in these circumstances. Try to listen to get an insight or two, but let her get the pain out of her system. It might do you both some good to get issues out in the open. Respond later when you have had a chance to digest and think about what was said. Would you go to therapy together if that were possible? Might be worth a try even though you don't really want to.
Yep, I agree with Jo. Get away for a weekend. Away from W and away from brushfires.
Quote: My W actually has been specific about why she distrusts me, but a lot of that distrust is out of fear, not reality
Careful, guy. You can have an irrational fear, and know it is an irrational fear, but simply because you know it, does not necessarily remove the fear or keep it from controlling you or your behaviors.
She has to learn how to battle her fear and her anger. She has to learn that she can act in a loving manner toward you, still have sex with you, and even ENJOY sex with you despite her anger. I had to learn that, and it was very, very tough.
There were times when my H would initiate sex and I would go absolutely rigid. I knew I was feeling fear and anger. I knew why I was reacting that way (out of habit), but it still did not stop happening. Do you know how hard it is to enjoy physical contact when you are emeshed in fear and anger? Well, if you don't, let me tell you, it ain't fun.
What my H had to learn how to do was not take these immediate responses from me personally. I have to say he was pretty willing to do that, too. What I had to do was learn to trust him in an intimate fashion. I would tell him how I was feeling, and he would talk to me about it, but he would not stop touching me. He'd encourage me to relax, he'd slow down, he'd tell me it's okay, but I had to keep reminding myself over and over and over again that HE was not the enemy, my fear and my anger were.
God, at first this was so hard, because it was soooo easy to give in to the anger and fear. Sometimes we'd sail through it, and other times, I'd fail miserably, and we'd get into a huge fight.
But what made the biggest difference is when he finally backed off of his endless verbal and emotional criticism of me, and then I found the book. He is now slowly beginning to realize that he has some of his own work to do in that department. He had no idea how critical he was being, and can sometimes continue to be... he doesn't INTEND to be critical, but he is learning that that is how it is coming out... and I'm not the only one who sees it that way. This is rooted in the fact that he is not the best communicator in the world. But he's working on it!!
Anyway, this took us some time, but we came through it. You will, too.
And if you don't want to go back to a shrink right now, that's cool. Hang tight. Let her make some progress first. That in and of itself could motivate you to make some changes too... not because you feel you have to, but simply because you feel like you want to.
Quote: but if she really loved me, why would she knowingly deprive me of the single thing she knew I wanted from the relationship. She KNOWINGLY, and WILLFULLY, deprived me of it.
Hm. Give yourself some room, here. If nothing else, at least be willing to accept that while your interpretation of her actions may very well be accurate, admit that you may also be MISSING some additional critical information that would change your understanding significantly enough to realize that it isn't YOU she was rejecting and never was.
You can't see that now, I know. But at least try to make room for the possibility.
You sound much, much better today, and I'm glad to hear it. Like Jo said, try to take better care of yourself. Slow down a little if you can, go work out, get some more sleep.
I'm nagging. Sorry. You're a big boy, I'm sure you know this. So since you do, then start doing it.
In all the time you've been posting here, I don't ever remember you having the quiet strength you have now.
It is sooooo good to see you this way. You have the critical boundaries issue down!! I know you have good days and bad, but come what may, you know who you are and what you will and will not stand for. That's priceless.
Still have the pain of the R and rejection, but the inner strength is coming back. I really was in bad shape for awhile.
This is much more the way that I usually am. Might not stay that way, but it sure the h*ll feels better. Also feels good that I drew the line in the sand and I do not feel guilty about that. Took a long time understand that I deserve a whole marriage, not just a room mate relationship. I have peace with where my decisions are taking me, even though it's not what I intended when I said "I do." I hope others can find their own peace too. Life is too short to continue going through the h*ll and torture of rejection. If I have to move on, I can start all over again but I am trying this separation as the last resort tactic. I have started from scratch before, and I know that I can make it no matter what happens.
I was reading back through an earlier post of yours and something stopped me cold. So I thought I'd ask you about it.
Quote: (She keeps telling me) "I have to be able to trust you". I tell her that this is a fine thing to expect, but that sometimes the standards she sets for me can be too exacting, and that the boundaries move to suit her.
I notice in your reply to her, you return volley by telling her about her standards and moving boundaries.
When she says to you, "I have to be able to trust you," why do you not look her straight in the eye and say, "yes, you sure do." And leave it at that?
You are a trustworthy person and you know you are. And since you know you are, it doesn't matter what her standards are and what her boundaries are... because they are HERS, not YOURS.
Her not trusting you is her issue. By bringing up additional points, I think you might be clouding the trust issue for her, you know? You scrambling to meet her trust demands are communicating to her that you are in fact untrustworthy... because you are not acting in a consistent fashion. You are jumping through her hoops. And because you are busy jumping through her hoops, the one thing you are NOT doing is standing your ground by saying, "sorry babe, I happen to know I'm a real trustworthy guy. I hope you can get over your mistrust of me."
Do you see? When she makes "I" statements like that, confirm them for her so she comes to understand that SHE must own the issue and confront it herself.
Another example. If she says something like, "I can't see myself enjoying "the act."
You look at her and say, "I have absolutely no doubt that you feel that way. That is definitely a problem."
See? You confirm that you have heard and acknowledged what she has said, but you are in no way claiming responsibility for her views or her actions, and quite literally, are throwing them back on her WITHOUT DEFENDING YOURSELF OR YOUR NEEDS.
It's running toward the end of my day out here (10pm), so I thought I'd break from work to see if there were any posts. Nice to see the sensitive thoughts from both of you. I am interested in the apparent fact that Jo and I are in a parallel situation. I've been separated 3 weeks, and am forcing this separation becuase the old ways didn't work, and she needs to be forced to DEAL with her stuff for once, without my presence to affect her.
She and I had a couple nice talks today at the office, and were in a couple meetings together. All was fine, but no new ground was broken either.We are having lunch tomorrow to talk about my living situation, or lack of it. I do need a place to just crash. My mom, who lives nearby, keeps saying that I should move in with her, because to her this will surely just last a couple weeks! I tell her nicely that I must get my own pad, thank you. I just bought a book on the rise/fall of the Roman Empire that I can't wait to read, but I have no time or place to do it. I miss my reading time.
Sometimes I look at my wife, and I see just a friend, and other times I see a lover. Don't know if there's any significance to that. Also, women seem to be starting to come out of the woodwork who are *interested* in me. I am a decent looking man, and a lot of these women know me and how I am as a husband. I must say it it might become very tempting for me to get into something with one of them. What do I do, from a woman's point of view?? This could be a serious dilemma for me.
In a meeting today at the office, two co-workers said to me that I'm showing strain. I thought I was keeping a good attitude, but they said the stress of work is starting to show. A testiness. Let's just say that I'm starting to fray around the edges. So, I am gonna shut down my PC and try to get some decent sleep tonight. I'm about to drop from exhaustion.
Quote: I must say it might become very tempting for me to get into something with one of them. What do I do, from a woman's point of view??
I seriously hope this is a rhetorical question.
But if it isn't, then my advice to you would be to first decide if you want your marriage to work or not. You ARE still married.
If you don't want to be married anymore, that's cool, but I think you owe it to your wife to tell her so she can start moving on as well. If you go screwing around now, then I have to say I completely understand why she cannot get over her trust issues with you, and your marriage can't get over this impasse.
Why don't you take your wife out on a date and see how it goes with her?
Of course it is tempting to have all of this flattery coming from other women, but they are not the one that you love and really have a committment to. We are very vunerable right now and people know that. Think pack of wolves that always take down the weakest prey. That is me right now and I suspect it is you right now, too.
I like the attention because my ego needs some boosting, just like yours does, BUT IF I carried it further, things would become an even bigger mess than it is now. From what I see on these posts, even though you crave attention, this is coming from the wrong people. You want attention from your wife. I've told people thanks for the interest but what I am working on is too important for me to screw up. A well meaning friend even sent me the match.com website as a joke. It was funny at the time, but I called her back and said no thanks. She was just trying to let me know that there are other people out there which I understand, but prefer not to go there.
You really love your wife and family, that is evident from your posts. We have chosen to take the drastic step of moving out to see what our spouses will do, if the marriage is as important to them as it is to us. Even though it is really TEMPTING, we are not in a stable enough place in our heads to go there with other people.
Glad that you told your mom that you need a place of your own. Would you consider moving in with her for a short time while you find your own place? I would consider it just to have a safe place to be. I'm grateful for the friends that I have as they have made me very welcome in their home. We have a good arrangement, I do most of the cooking, they clean up dinner and I keep my area clean. So far so good.
Sleeping in your car is NOT SAFE! Remember Michael Jorden's dad. Sorry, but this is a big worry especially in a big city. There are too mant crazies out there. I ran the streets in my younger days and know all too well that even in "safe" neighborhoods there can be danger.
The conversations with your W seem to be a good thing and she is obviously concerned about your living situation. I would be scared out of my mind if my S were sleeping on the streets. Let us know how she feels and any conclusion that you come to.
Remember the wolf thing when you are having a weak moment.
Thanks to both of you for the thoughts. Yes, Corri, it was a SOMEWHAT rhetorical question. But, as Jo understands, I am in a vulnerable spot. Going without sex for so long, it would be nice to know if all the parts still work, know what I mean?
I appreciate the advice though, especially from Jo only because we're so close in our situations, and has obviously had the same thoughts already.
I will check in later, and update on the conversation with my wife about the living situation. Just to disabuse you of a thought you have Jo, I don't get the sense that my wife cares about my living situation. I told her that I ned to get serious about it. If I hadn't said it, she wouldn't have cared, I don't think.
But I have a question for each of you:
Corri: I don't understand why you were so physically cold to your husband, I only know that you were. Can you tell me briefly what you leaned about the WHY?
Johanna: What thread of yours can you point me to so that I can learn more about your situation, since it seems to, like I said, parallel mine?
Just go back and read all of my past posts, there aren't that many. I started here in March in a really bad frame of mind. Ask anything that you want to.
As far as being physically cold, my H does not understand that at all. Denial is powerful. He cannot explain why his lack of intimacy to me. He does not want to find out, scared that the supposedly most important person in his life, me, will think that he is weak. Wish to h*ll that he would have been as supportive and caring as I have been to him. But I have to look forward, not in the past, though it will influence my decision.
His mom is very closed and he never observed a close couple relationship since his dad died when he was 10. His folks were fighting a lot when he was a kid. I think his fear of intimacy is tied to losing his dad at a very young age.
Lots of people in our sit. If we can help with one small thing for each other, that's good.
