Need Advice, WAW wants to give it a month

[aliveandkicking]

Ok- here goes. And hopefully my kids wont come storming in-

AAK, when you mention TCB, taking care of business: can you be more specific.

Yes, I can be specific, however, in each sitch TCB is different obviously as finances, work schedules, health issues, family dynamics vary greatly.

In my sitch, let's say for example, we were in escrow on a house and something came up that needed handling (something wasn't disclosed prior to entering escrow). I would be the assertive TCB person who called them on it and played hardball if it was needed. Now, part of this is due to H's laid back attitude and part due to me basically giving up on trusting H and his ability to handle things. Someone has tossed around a theory here (maybe you robx) about men and women switching roles and I think that very well captures our R. I mean, H felt emasculated but then would do the wishy washy passive aggressive raisins in my purse thing...it is a vicious cycle and I don't really blame either of us. One time, last year when he was out of town and I was dealing with a landlord issue, H sent an email to landlord telling him to back off of me and he took over the conversation...can you say "hot"???? I was so turned on by that tiny gesture (I think he may have even gotten some phone sex that night)...

Now, H is a hypochondriac and breaks bones here and there. Feels victimized by life despite his tremendous sense of self-importance in the entertainment biz...

I certainly did not feel that H was someone who could or would take care of me, especially if the sh*t hit the fan or I really needed him. I am sure I helped to create this reality too. If he did make an effort, I was a perfectionist and a nag and though I often gave him praise, support and attention, all he heard was "you're not enough"...Hindsight has not helped me to decipher what the objective truth was. Sometimes he was being lazy, thoughtless and irresponsible and sometimes I was being way too critical and demanding.

Regardless, I wanted a man who would take decisive action and own it. Not waiver and hem and ha until I would finally take action and then blame ME for the outcome. We had a MC who pointed that out years ago. In his defense though, I am a tough cookie and if he was going to take me on in a debate, he'd usually lose. And of course, that paradigm of feeling that we had opposing interests was awful.

During the good stretches, we backed each other up. If something sucked, we handled it together. But that was work for us to trust each other and give and take (I know how you hate the W word)...

In your case, there was no affair but there was no sexual desire.

No affair ever. I had crushes and seeing as I was MARRIED I made sure to put safe distance from myself and whomever...I fantasized sometimes. Occasional sexual desire for H, occasionally fantasizing about other men...going to extrapolate more on this at the bottom.

What specific areas were you alienated in the relationship?

We were drowning financially, H's response was to go out more and hang out with rich people and live the dream. He always got fascinating gigs that would finance expensive trips, dinners etc. while I was home having cereal for dinner and cutting back. This was not necessarily all his fault. And for a long time I was super cool about his lifestyle (he's out and about and I'm homemaker and that's the deal)...but with not enough money coming in, him having that lifestyle got very tiresome and I tried to find work here and there but was very resentful that he was hardly here (where reality was tough and bills bills bills).

Before I continue, this is all very specific to MY sitch but I implore you guys to find the common thread which is not about the details but about the feelings that emerge when there is any elephant in the room that is not being dealt with or handled together...

What did your husband do or what was his behavior like that contributed to that problem?

This was a long work in progress. H would do things that felt irresponsible to me...notice I said "felt" and "to me" as I learned we have different perceptions so I tried to back off. For example, H gets sick very easily and that is a big turn off and a big pain in the a** (just being honest, self-care is an important part of TCB). So, when he would decide to stay up all night the last night of a business trip and come home in shambles...I felt very resentful. He knew he was going to come home to me and the kids and that I would have been "on" for a week or more with no break and he still drove himself into the ground. So when he came home and wanted an enthusiastic and sexually loaded welcome, I was already aggravated (having gotten a message that he's exhausted and stayed up all night and feels like he's getting sick...). So that is one specific example.

Also, he was so hyper and chaotic and did not tune in to what was happening in our home when he'd come in. I wanted to volley and work as a team. He was impulsive and kind of manic and wanted spontaneous outbursts of fun which were great accept when I was trying to wind the kids down for bed or something. Now, for all of you proponents of marriage is fun and not supposed to be work...that's great for you if you get to come in, get everyone bonkers and then leave or go to work and have the W deal with the subsequent melt downs and 2 hours it takes to get the kids to bed and then the depression and exhaustion that comes from losing hours of the already tiny bit of time W has to unwind and feel like an autonomous sovereign entity...make sense?

Also, Hs preoccupation with and constant references to other people...what they had, did, said...in comparison to us...that revealed such a depth of insecurity that, even though much of the time I tried to reassure him and build his confidence, it scared the crap out of me because people who are that insecure and care that much what others think and their image tend to lack fortitude and character. In our case, I felt very threatened, especially when it was regarding what other people thought about me or what we did with our kids and our life together. Before I even turned 18, I recognized that my life is mine and I can take others' input but ultimately, what others think is their problem (cuz they don't have to live MY life)...this was a HUGE one and a major reason that I doubt we will reconcile. His ego is too fragile and his image would suffer too much...but anyway.

Again, please don't look for a literal connection. My sitch is odd due to the whole Hollywood aspect...look for the essence.

You lost respect for him for deferring to you? I'm not sure what that means, is that the same as blaming you? What was he blaming you for? Was he being abusive in this respect?

Yes, defer to me and then blame. He regrets that we sold a house many years ago so it is my fault and unforgivable...

Was he abusive? Hmmm...in retrospect I think so. I was more vocal and I like to fight balls out; rather than skirt issues, I lay'em out on the table (just being honest). What a shame, can you imagine the sex we COULD have had if he knew how to handle me, LOL. Anyway, he was more passive aggressive. But, his insistence on constantly rehashing old blames and throwing them in my face even after I had forgiven him leaving me with a baby and having an affair...well, it was abusive. The mind-f*ck of having decisions that we made together held against me as my fault and mistakes even though I was willing to accept and love him through major transgressions, I can't describe it. I am happy to be rid of it and I don't listen to it anymore no matter what.

The TCB is very interesting, what wasn't being done.

I think I covered that. So guys, it is your job to look at where you are not taking care of business. This is NOT doing the dishes or cleaning toilets or changing diapers. It is taking care of things that create a feeling of security and stability. And, it takes subtlety to address these things in a matter of fact way that is not sooo demonstrative and attention seeking but gets it done (that is part of why I think this takes time. If you lay it on too thick it is ridiculous; the old Thinker would have looked like an a** pulling the move he did, in context, it worked).

This could all prove very helpful to any men who are reading this and are trying to determine why their wives have lost sexual desire for them?

You lost sexual desire for your husband completely?

Waxed and waned but rarely what one would hope for in a M. Sometimes I was even repulsed. I am a tiny woman and when he would get really heavy (both emotionally and physically) I couldn't handle it. It was NOT about appearance, it was about feeling that he could handle himself physically, felt good about himself and was focused on pleasuring me and not just getting off. We had a long long time of lackluster sex life so it was different at different times. Worst thing ever was when I tried to spice it up and he'd make some dorky comment instead just f'ing taking the reigns...

He would grope and paw me a lot and was always complementary but it came off as so needy and manipulative. AND, if we were off all day and then at the end of the night he was turning it on, that felt like servicing him...just being blunt here.

Were there times when you were fighting with him/arguing that you did feel sexually attracted?

I don't remember feeling that BUT, in retrospect it sure seems that we could have used all that energy for better purposes.

Did you lose all sexual desire or was it just your husband that turned you off?

I think I lost desire for him and then over time really thought there was something wrong with me and that I might be frigid because I cared so little. I would get into it on occasion but was much more excited about getting him off (had kind of given up on myself). And again, I would have little crushes that lit my fire and I would use that to get into it with H (oh come on guys, you know you do that)...but over all, sex was on the bottom of my long list of TTD.

Did you feel frustrated in this area with your husband/

Frustrated, sad, disgusted, hopeful, disappointed, despondent...yikes.

What did your husband do to correct these issues?

Hmmm...Therapy (not particularly helpful). I don't really know. I remember he did try different approaches, the whole massage/I'm not really expecting anything even though I haven't gotten laid in 5 months and am about to call an escort service (sorry, that one didn't work too well), the dinner and a movie and build up approach (much better), the taking care of himself and being proactive in our family approach (much better but short-lived), the going out of town and coming back approach worked pre-kids but after I was usually too tired, the going away for a weekend just the two of us approach (WINNER but how often can you do that on a limited budget), the "hey, other women like me" approach (LOSER), the putting me down because he felt like sh*t about himself and being rejected approach (understandable but fatal)...I'll let you know if I think of more.

What caused you to gain sexual desire for him again if that is where you are at right now? What specific behaviors & changes did he make that made you feel attracted to him again in that way?

I did gain sexual desire for him after he left (both times). No I am not there right now, thank God. I am completely turned off at this point because I am in reality. BUT, what turned me on about him leaving was his assertiveness, decisiveness, autonomy...he was finally responsible for himself and his own damn life and feelings and outcome. He was being an a**hole so the attraction didn't last (nothing had really changed with him). AND guys, listen, when it comes down to it NOTHING is more desirable than a man who will walk through fire for his family IYKWIM...that is what we want. And once it sunk in that H was going to continue on his path, running around with other women, showing off and bragging and blaming me and letting me handle ALL of the hard stuff, my flame burned out. I wanted the decisive, assertive, self-sufficient guy but in my home and doing it for the benefit of his family, not just himself and his ego. Make sense? So, the cake-eating stopped. The sex was pretty on fire though so I got to a) realize I was not frigid and b) experience great sex with him so that old story was re-written (that our sex sucked). I still think I can do better.

Seriously this is good stuff, alot of LBS's on this forum need to hear this stuff and the details associated with it.

Well, that felt like a blood-letting but if you want more, just let me know.

Guys, as Coach says, "you can handle it."