In Limbo

[d1adsl5a]

Fall,

I read your thread earlier to Cat. Sounds like you have gone through these moods as well. Looks like you are handling things better than me. It is so hard just being with this person everyday. It has been a tough week for me. I usually have been responding in one word answers and not looking at her. When I said that I saw the letter, knowing all the mean things she said there about only marrying me 15 years ago because her father approved, she just said I am going through many feelings now. I know I am just looking for some compassion, some hint of feeling. That would make all the anger go away. But I get nothing. I tried the Mr. Nice Guy approach for sometime. The only thing I get in return is hearing her talk with friends and one of my sons about leaving. So my face is probably saying--I hate you for what you did to me and our kids. The anger is draining, but I just wish there was hope... I do have a good therapist, he tells me this can take a year if she is going to come around. I am 4 months in and a year seems like an awful long time. I just miss her closeness...


I know I am supposed to detach. Not engaging in conversation, ignoring her to a certain degree has helped in that regard. She still just goes about her day as if nothing is wrong. No matter if I am Mr. Nice Guy or the Guy who is ignoring her, she has the same demeanor. How can someone just shut off every feeling in their body...

My question is she invited me a few weeks back to a fundraiser thursday(our 15 year wedding anniversary) I don't feel it is right for me to attend. I don't want to appear like this puppy dog waiting for a sign..I just want to take our sons out for the night somewhere. She can be alone on our anniversary.

I do appreciate your prayers.

[dl443322]

Hey D, I dont know if you know this, but Mach is away for the week.

Listen, this stuff is hard. You are so early into this that detaching will not be there completely for a long time.

I am over two years in and I have just now begun to feel fully detached and even then it comes and goes. So, dont be so hard on yourself.

Look, if you really dont want to go to the fundraiser, although you would be doing a good thing, then dont go. It is better for you not to go then be there and be miserable.

Focus on you and your kids. Let your w blow in the wind right now.

She is lost, broken and only she can fix her. When h was still at home, I used to think about how I would treat a neighbor and that's how I would treat him.

I dont think it is wrong of you to tell her that you would prefer speaking to the kids together regarding the situation.

Hang in there.

[d1adsl5a]

I like the idea of treating her like a neighbor. May get me to focus a bit better on how to deal with her. Ignoring her, Not having eye contact with her is exhausting. I just sometimes she would just show some emotion. Some reaction.

I don't think I will go Thursday. She needs to see me start to not care either. OK, I still do care and it does bug the hell out of me when she comes home at 4am....It does still hurt when she gets dressed to kill before she goes out...It still gives me a searing pain sometimes when I think of us living separate lives if we divorce. It kills me when I think of our sons with divorced parents. It hurts so bad that I worked so hard to get to this point in ourlives. Great Career, Great kids, Great house, Great wife....She takes it and tosses it away without ever really telling me how she was truly feeling...

OK--I got that out again. I do feel a bit better....

[Fallgirl]

"...It still gives me a searing pain sometimes when I think of us living separate lives if we divorce. It kills me when I think of our sons with divorced parents. It hurts so bad that I worked so hard to get to this point in ourlives. Great Career, Great kids, Great house, Great wife....She takes it and tosses it away without ever really telling me how she was truly feeling..."

I can`t do the quote thing properly D, but just did my thing there cos I have to say I`m with you on that one, buddy. It is just so bloody hard to watch our WAS throw it all away.

So don`t watch. And force yourself not to think about it too much. Release your tears and sadness when you`re on your own. Get that good cry. for a long time, I took to wearing sunglasses all the time while driving, listening to Lionel Richieand weeping. You`ve gotta feel that pain to come back up.

And then think mail man, shop assistant, whoever you`d engage in banal chat to when you meet her.

I`m womdering about your anniversary fundraiser.If it`s a very social event-ie neither of you having to really hook up much during the night-why not go and have fun there yourself? Why not you go get dressed up to the nines and look forward to meeting lots of other people? She`ll notice how well you look, what a social guy you are. But she won`t say of course.

You have to avoid going down the track of cutting yourself off socially.

I took off my wedding ring a year ago.I so regret that now. If you make a mark towards separation like not acknowledging birthdays and anniversaries it moves you closer to separation IMHO and is harder to row back. Another notch in the separation pole.

If, on the other hand, you decide not to go this Thurs be sure to have great fun lined up for you and the boys. Do NOT lay around and mope. Have fun! Go to the movies(you can cry in the dark!!)bowling whatever. That`ll be a win/win for you cos you`ve gotta keep that good memory bank full for your kids!

Ignore that damned letter! File that in the DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE/HEAR category.

What fun have you lined up for you today?

What new hobbies are you taking up?

How are you being mysterious with your W?

Are you dressed to kill ALL the time?

How happy/healthy/ well do you look?

Have you looked up old friends/made new ones recently?

Have you changed around all your daily routines?(new toohpaste, aftershave,eat something different for breakfast, read if you don`t normally read, switch off TV, whatever is different for you to do)

Do you laugh a lot with your kids?

Have you studied DB and DR books(and don`t let her find them like my H did and dont let her know you come here to DB forum)

And no need to answer any of above questions here! They`re just for you.

Mach will tell you DON`T PUT A TIME LIMIT ON THIS! I`m years into MLC behaviours, one year into separate rooms(don`t go to the couch/guestroom if you can help it...)BUT I`m much happier! No more crazy dance between both of us anymore even though H tries to draw me in.

You`ll get drawn into the Crazy Dance if you keep that anger up D! That`s for sure. You`ll spin and spin if you don`t detach.

It`ll probably be the hardest thing you have ever done in your entire life. But if you db I promise you YOU`LL get to a happier place. Whether W comes with you or not is entirely up to her.

DO NOT discuss relationship or separation with her. If she does decide to talk LISTEN(I was crap at that!). You don`t have to agree with her but say things like"I never thought of that before"That`s good to know""Glad you told me" etc but don`t commit to anything. Give yourself time to think. And don`t believe everything she says.

Have a GREAT day!

[Jimbo]

Hi D1,

I hope that you know that there are people that care about you here and do follow your thread, even though we may not post to you constantly. Since Mach is taking a well deserved vacay, maybe I can offer you my observations?

When I said that I saw the letter, knowing all the mean things she said there about only marrying me 15 years ago because her father approved, she just said I am going through many feelings now.

I hope you recognize this for what it is- a history rewrite. They have to justify their belief that we are their problem by rewriting the past, so that we ARE their problem and they can completely avoid ANY responsibility for their role.

DO NOT let this phase you. You know what is true and what is not. But you will NEVER convince her that her rewrite is not true. It is her security blanket. It allows her to work through this in her own time, which is what you must let her do.

I usually have been responding in one word answers and not looking at her...

>snip<

...I know I am just looking for some compassion, some hint of feeling. That would make all the anger go away. But I get nothing.

You are getting nothing because she has nothing to give. She is checked out of the R, and has been for sometime....long before we ever even had a clue that there was anything wrong.

Believe it or not, she is just as confused at her lack of feeling as you are, if not more so! It's probably one of the things that feeds into their belief that we are the problem.

What they fail to appreciate is that they don't have any feelings for anything.

They don't know WHY they don't feel anything- so imagine how much more complex it makes the situation when you give her one word answers and don't look at her.

She doesn't know what's wrong, and she doesn't know how to fix it. Plus she's getting cold reactions from her H.

Are your reactions putting you closer to, or further away from your objective?

I tried the Mr. Nice Guy approach for sometime. The only thing I get in return is hearing her talk with friends and one of my sons about leaving. So my face is probably saying--I hate you for what you did to me and our kids. The anger is draining, but I just wish there was hope...

The Mr. Nice Guy approach is doomed to failure. Not because of the method, but because of the analysis. An assumption has been made on your part that you can fix this somehow. "If only I said or did the right thing, then this would all go away!" Sorry, that's not how this works, unfortunately. This is something that she has to figure out for herself. And since she's the one who packed her own baggage, she's the only one that can unpack it. I know you want to be there for her, because you love her.

Do you love her enough to honor her wishes by letting her do what it is that she feels she needs to do to deal with her baggage?

I hope so. Because no amount of getting angry with her, confronting her, badgering her, or trying to manipulate her into doing anything she doesn't want to do, will work. If anything, it will push her even farther away.

I do have a good therapist, he tells me this can take a year if she is going to come around. I am 4 months in and a year seems like an awful long time. I just miss her closeness...

I can tell you here and now that if you try to put a timeframe on this, you are doomed to failure. Just reading your statement above tells me that you have already fallen into the "countdown" trap.

...."4 months down- only 8 more to go!!!!".......

No.

I don't mean to disparage your therapist or his assessment, but this takes as long as it takes, my friend.

And it is up to your W how long this takes- not some arbitrary speculation by someone who is not even in your W's head, and couldn't possibly know exactly what's going on up there, and how long it will take for her to process it all.

What happens when the countdown clock reaches zero....and she still has not "come around"?

What then?

Like so many others, you will be crushed. Your deflated expectations will turn into frustration. Then anger.

Then you will throw your hands in the air, give up, and walk away.

All because you are trying to control her process!

Stop.

I know I am supposed to detach. Not engaging in conversation, ignoring her to a certain degree has helped in that regard. She still just goes about her day as if nothing is wrong. No matter if I am Mr. Nice Guy or the Guy who is ignoring her, she has the same demeanor. How can someone just shut off every feeling in their body...

"No matter if I am Mr. Nice Guy or the Guy who is ignoring her, she has the same demeanor."

Hmmmmmmmm.....maybe her problem has nothing to do with you?

My question is she invited me a few weeks back to a fundraiser thursday(our 15 year wedding anniversary) I don't feel it is right for me to attend. I don't want to appear like this puppy dog waiting for a sign..I just want to take our sons out for the night somewhere. She can be alone on our anniversary.

D1, I know it's easy to get discouraged when you get absolutely NO feedback from her that ANYTHING makes a difference to her regarding you.

What is important to understand about MLC is that changes occur v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. The seed of a positive experience you plant now germinates many, many months down the road. And they accumulate. This goes for good experiences, as well as bad.

So you have two choices here:

You can decide that you will ignore her invitation to you and throw away a potential opportunity...

or

You will take that opportunity to shine and show her what she will be missing, and thereby start to accumulate those good experiences that will gather momentum down the road....


Your choice.

[Golfgirl1]

Yes, very slow process and they remain in confusion for a long, long time. My h has said he's tired of being in "limbo." I think he's in the replay stage, possibly moving toward withdrawal, but I'm not sure. No time limits can be set.

[d1adsl5a]

Hey Fall,

I have done alot of those things. I do work out every morning. Have always done that, but I have bought new going out clothes, instead of just work clothes. I know I expect instant results or at least some sign of hope. Have made sure I am avoiding the sweat pants around the house as well. Coming and going without telling her. It does kill me when she comes home at 4am. By the way I have noticed your responses at 4:30ish. You are definitely the early bird.

I found that I like country music. Normally, I am Rock and Roll guy. However, Sugarland seems to hit home quite a bit. I am a 40 year, vp of a fortune 10 company and I was crying in my car last night. It just is overwhelming sometimes and it just gets to you. I came home last night and she tells me that it was not because of her horrible temper that she went on antidepressants 5 years ago. It was because she wasn't in love with me. I said you were living a lie for 5 years...she said yes I am sorry I didn't say anything to you, I guess you made a bad choice in picking me. Later I was saying when I was out a couple weeks ago, I met someone, I left before anything regretful happened. She said that is great that you met someone. I said I will not make this easy on you by becoming a monster and cheating. She also said if she had to decide today, she still wants a divorce.

I know discussing the R is bad. But sometimes if I don't discuss, it builds up to where I just have to say something. Anger is so exhausting. The sleeping on the couch, just allows me to sleep. I just find myself staring at the ceiling in the same bed with her.

I did tell her that I am not going Thursday to the fundraiser. I still may just decide to show up dressed to kill just to show her..

Today we went to Six Flags Great America today with the kids. Has been planned for awhile. We put on the truce for today. My son on the way home said today was also great that we didn't fight today. That just hurts. When we were talking outside last night, my son was hearing us talk through his window I come to find out.

Fall: Don't you think sometimes we deserve to be happy. I just want to be happy again. I just want to feel love again. I just don't know how long I can stick it out. This site helps, the DB book I read helps. Some friends that are close help. It does give me strength to carry on. I just want to be loved again. I know right now I have to be strong for the kids. I am not there everyday, but I will keep the fight up...

I got on facebook and have reconnected with friends I haven't spoken to in 20 years. So I am trying...I will work on not believing everything she says..

[dl443322]

Sweetie, listen, that stuff is hard to hear, I know. But, the rewriting of history is what they do.

That's why detaching is so important. And thats why not putting a timeline on this is even more important. It all unfolds in its own time.

Look, this dbing is for us. Its a way for us to find our balance, find our way. Its an incredible journey of self discovery and a chance to become the person we are meant to be.

Find out what you want to do for you. Dont just go through the motions of GAL. Figure out some things you always wanted to do and do them.

No more relationship talks, write it down when it starts to build up. Stop looking from signs from her, those kinds of expectations will throw you.

So, come on now. Do what needs to be done. No expectations, no relationship talks. Find some things that make you happy. Make memories with your kids. Stop looking at timelines.

You need to get your footing, find your center and summon the strength I know is in there and start your journey.

Listen to Jim, he has some great insight.

You can do this, D. I know it.

[d1adsl5a]

Thanks Jimbo for my daily dose of reality. You can obviously see right through me. I guess I keep trying different tactics to elicit a different response or emotion. I get that it is the wrong approach and wrong thought process. I would imagine that is because I haven't detached, I am still looking for that one day for her to say I'm sorry, I want to try again. It is so hard just acting like nothing bothers me everyday.

I almost feel like she has rewritten every year of our 15 year marriage. She did say during our R discussion, I don't love myself, don't think I ever have. I don't even know what love is. I only have enough love for the kids now. I haven't loved you for over 5 years. That was the reason I went on the antidepressants. At the time, I(and her friends who witnessed it)thought it was due to her horrible temper. She said I know I should have said something, you just picked a bad person for a wife.

So yes, I can see the confusion you talked about in her words. A little over 4 months ago she was acting like we were a happily married couple, family. Then, it hits you like a wall. And it keeps hitting you over and over again.

Regarding the timeline, that is another area where I am challenged. I guess when I am ready to pack it in, I will. Whether it's 6 months, a year, or longer. I am just at that stage right now where that piece of you is missing. That closness of her companionship, that friendship. I do get it from our sons but it isn't the same.

I guess in closing, the hardest part is that about every two weeks I need a temperature check. By not talking to her about anything but superficial stuff, I just have to dump. As I said to fallgirl, Monday night was hard. I am grown man that had to go cry in his car because it is all just too much to take sometimes.

I am doing many of the things to make me happy. It is football season and there is nothing I like more than watching my sons play tackle football everynight. I have been going out more and having a good time. I told my W that I met someone(yes to try and make her jealous) and that I left before I did anything stupid. My W said she was happy I met someone. I said that is exactly what you would like me to do is cheat to make it easy on you. I will not be turned into a monster in this. I know that is the wrong approach as well.

I am working on it....I swear.

Thanks for your support Jimbo(from In Limbo...)

[d1adsl5a]

Allright, I will also go out with her tomorrow. I do agree that it does have the opportunity to bear fruit...