FG and Dawn,

Dawn, I agree with your assessment of the "Surrendered Wife" in that the whole thing really is for people in R where both care. But it opened my eyes to a few things and how I could change those things about me and not emasculate H at the same time. Stupid stuff, but the beginning of my freedom to be honest. I didn't trust H with anything, was the bottom line. My fault, his fault, probably both of ours. I just lived by the "if you want something done right, do it yourself" rule and he lived my the "I'm gonna say what I want and you are going to figure out how to make it happen, then if I don't like it I don't have to be responsible" rule.

So now I can be a passenger in the car without constantly acting like H is going to kill us (although there are times when I still want to grab the seat). I let him make major financial decisions and he can't blame me if there is no money. Just little ways to release control and it has translated into the rest of my life, allowing me to relax more. And it has allowed me to accept that there are things that are masculine that I just plain out enjoy, like home improvement projects.

And I do agree with your assessment of male/female R as the Bible talks about it. That has changed with the times and if we look at when it was written and how people lived then, that is what it meant. But for current times, I think it has to do more with roles and the whole hunter/gatherer/nurturer thing. Poor men have no idea what we want from them anymore or how they are supposed to act. IMO, the only true "manly" act they have anymore is contributing the sperm. It really is the only thing that we women cannot do and I do believe that if we could figure that out... We want them to wash the dishes, change the oil in the car, work, cry, nurture the kids, etc...All the things that we as women have learned that we can do. Many of the things that we expect from men are not part of their natural makeup. It is confusing for them to have the feminine part of their anime taking a much larger role. Personally, letting myself off of the hook and accepting more a more traditional "feminine" position in my entire life has been wonderful and freeing experience for me. I don't pretend to be stupid or incapable, I just simply choose not to do things if they do not meet my needs. That is why there are two of us. I know if H left today, I could take care of all of the stuff I need to. But honestly, many of the things I can do, like snaking the toilet and trimming tree branches, do not make me feel womanly. And with two man/boys in my house, there is no reason I should have to while they sit on their butts and do nothing because they know I will do it all. So it has been a slow road, but I do see my H being willing to do the things that I used to, while I do the things I enjoy and I don't know if he feels more masculine or not, I think in the moment he does, he feels like I think he is capable of more than just bringing home a paycheck. But it is definately small baby steps. And there has been some major adjusting, because my H is more intellectual than physical by nature (he was raised by women, with only a tyrannical grandfather for a male role model as dad, well waste of space) and because he is now a workaholic, he is not home often to do this stuff. But he is willing to show S how to do things so that I don't have to, which right now I view as a plus.

Sorry for the rambling. FG, I want to ask you something, now you look back and see your whole role (although I believe you are totally missing the positives) from the beginning. Do you also see H's? Do you see why you and he were attracted to each other? Our issues, especially my H's anger, start at the very beginning of our R, and we were teenagers so really from his adolescence at least, so I too wonder if it can change, but the only way to see is to do the work. Whether he wants to or not. Remember the butterfly effect. But do not totally submit yourself as the "dutiful wife" if that is not you either. Find a balance. Within yourself.



"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox