Young couple in need of help

[SDFoundGirl]

Stop trying to be heard or make a point. She can't hear you. Imagine her like a little girl with her fingers in her ears screaming, "I can't hear you!"

She lobs something at you, and you react like a puppet on a string. It is time to put your big boy pants on and STOP REACTING. You do not have to respond every time she says or does something. This is maturity. The two of you are acting like little kids.

Sorry to be blunt, but newbies like you need to hear the honest truth. We have all been where you are to some degree or the other, we all had to learn the same lessons, and we've all been whacked by 2x4s from the veterans here.

Do you want to be right or happy? Because that's really the choice. You are both fighting for control of the R, and all that gets you is conflict. There can be no fight if one person bows out. It's the physics principle of "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." It works the same way for people as it does for nature.

You're pursuing, pushing, reacting and acting no better than she is. The more you stay on this path, the more you push her away. Do you want to have a chance to save your marriage? Then stop it right now, use some restraint, and start using your head. No actions out of emotion. Table it for 48-hours, and if, in the coolness of your thinking it's still the right action, then you can take it then. It usually isn't.

Have you read DB or DR? Go back and reread every word. Post your questions here. I know it feels counter-intuitive, but it's absolutely the right thing to do.

SD

[Stronger]

R, don't go to her elders yet. See what you can do first. Try the DB ways first and if there's no progress and you want to force her hand...I won't stop you. But give this process a try first.

You need to grow up. I know that sucks to hear but you do. You are a mature man I'm sure when it comes to everything but her. It's amazing how the person we love can make us soooo stupid. Don't you think? Just like you CAN bring out the best in each other, we can bring out the worst in each other too.

But you haven't even tried this path yet....please give it a try. I think you can do it and I think she wants you to fight FOR her, that doesn't mean fighting WITH or AGAINST her.

Know what I mean?

Here is some more good news...you start acting mature and adult-like, it will only force her to do the same. Remember it will be a slow process most likely, but you can do it. I really have faith in you. I trust you can do this.

[sumguy27]

Yes you are right as i will post what has been said to each other after the frist initial email. She can't hear me like what you are saying.

My reply:

If you were going to reconsider us you could have told me. You also know how I am. You could have said I might reconsider us before anything just stop and think before you talk or act. Like I was telling you last night. I'm not tryin to blame you ok I just need your guidance. We are assuming things too much with each other and should have just gotten to the point instead of beating around the bush.

I don't know how you are when it come with them. You use to show your emtions to me all the time. I know you are the best mother to them and you guys are everything to me. I won't ever give up till I know I have done everything I can to save my family.

I dont want to talk about the bad parts of the past anymore either. It brings pain to both of us. It brings arguments from both of us pointing fingers at each other.

I do want you to remember the good and great times! I do want you to see me as your true best friend. Where we can just talk and talk about anything. I have stopped all contact with all those girls for a long time now. I know you won't believe me but I have changed.

Actions do speak louder then words. You will see. I will never give up. Your still my wife and the mother of my childern. Like I said before my biggest fear is what you went through growing up. Or what if your OM comes in the bedroom and touches my little girl! What if we find someonese and the they never love our kids? Only you and I love them and I know deep down your hurt and angry. I know that love is still there but now there is this huge wall and mountain I have to overcome.

Everytime I do take 1 step forward with you I have taken 3 steps back. I'm sorry for being immature. We both have. I love you so much my bones hurt.

Love your husband,

XXXXX

Her response:

Yeah but you know what? What's done is done. I'm done with you and our relationship. It doesn't matter how hard you try to make things work. I'm not willing to do so. I'm not backing down my words. I had enough and thats it. Like I've always said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Do you actually think I'm not gonna protect my kids? Well think again okay. You act as if none of this happened and that in a month or 2 i'm gonna come back to you and be a happy family all over again. HA yeah right. Like I said you can keep on dreaming and all but you know what I'm still not gonna have a change of mind or heart. Stop calling me your wife and telling people I'm still your wife when we are actually seperated. How do you expect me to be your best friend when all you do is harass me and people around me. Not that threaten people because you think I'm still your wife. Clearly like what my dad said we're not together anymore. So there I don't even know what to say to you anymore cuz its like you block all that [censored] that i say cuz you think that we can become one again. Which we really can't because I'm not gonna fall for you all the BS that I've been in for 8 years. So enough of all that you never answered me about the car and the phone and also the kids. So whats the deal?

I don't want to reply to her anymore. This is making my work day tougher.

[volleydog]

So enough of all that you never answered me about the car and the phone and also the kids.

Just read through your thread...ONLY answer her about these things, say NOTHING else. Reading back, on the kids issue, I think you need to do a little research and consult a L. Tell her you researching options and you want to make sure you are doing whats best for the kids.

Be very very businesslike...

[Stronger]

Ok Rabbitae86:

Please Please Please, for the love of all that's holy on earth, listen to me....If you don't hear me now, I can tell you, you will get divorced....are you listening? Open your eyes, and really open your heart right now, this is important:

STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. STOP. EFFING STOP.

Every time she says "We're done, I'm not coming back, It's over, Our family will never be together again...." Think of each statement as nails....those nails are going into your marital coffin.

Every time she says something like that, it become more and more real to her, more and more over and done. Think about it R, if you said to your kids "We're going to see Santa" just one time and it doesn't happen...not a big deal right? You wouldn't feel this gigantic obligation to go see Santa...right? But if you told your kids 100 times "We're going to go see Santa" what would happen if you didn't? There would be hell to pay. Does tha make sense? The more you say you are going to do something, the more committed you become to it.

You seem to think these outburst of love are going to get her to come back...why?

This is going to be a very hard thing for you to hear and maybe harder for you to believe, but you have to.....Your wife probably does still love you, BUT SHE DOES NOT LIKE YOU. She doesn't want to be around you, she doesn't want to deal with you. And if you keep this crap up, she's going to continue to feel like she is DEALING with you. No one wants to DEAL with other people. You want to interact with them, enjoy their company, right?

Volley dog is right, all business now. Nothing about emotion, nothing about love, nothing about fighting for this marriage. You don't treat her like crap, you treat her with the respect the mother of your children deserves. BUT back off the relationship talks NOW.

I promise you are pushing her so far away, you might not recover.

That email was not effective toward your cause of saving your marriage...and the part about OM coming into your child's room....wow dude, over board.

You can do this R, you just have to listen to the vets here.

I'm going to copy something I posted on my thread here on yours.....it will give you hope, or I hope it will.

Hold on tight, we're with you. But please stop it now.

[Stronger]

R, here you go. I posted this on my page, but maybe you can take from it what you will and what you need....and at this point, I think it's hope.

Here's something I posted to another DBer but I wanted to share it with everyone. I think it will give us all the hope we need to keep making changes to ourselves as WE see necessary and makes US happy. And I think it gives us hope that as we make our changes, it makes our spouses make changes.

Below are two abbreviated emails from my H. The first is from April when he was asking me to "just sign the damn papers" and I continued to refuse on the grounds we never sought professional help. And frankly, it's not what I wanted.

W, I don't want to fix things.

That's the thing that is most sh!tty, that I feel sh!tty about, but it is what it is. I don't want to fix anything. Too much has happened, too much has gone on, and I don't want it anymore. No more "discussions". Just no more.

We can still do things with S together. We can still do things together. But I don't want to fix anything. I'm ready for it to end. It already has ended and I don't want to start anything over again.

I'm sorry it's come to this, I really am. But it is here. And it's got nothing to do with anyone else but me and you. I am not in love. Being in love is super important to me. I am not. And too much sh!t has happened where I'm not going to be able to get there with you again. We can be friends, we should be friends. Not just for S but for us. But that's it. It's time to go forward with the divorce. Tell me what you want and lets iron out the details and lets get it done.

I am sorry. Really and truly.

I continued to GAL and work on me. I continued to explain I would not sign. I continued on my path as best I could and tried hard to adhere to the amazing advice I was getting here and working on things with my therapist, to make changes to me that I knew I needed to make. (Mostly my temper and how I was reacting to things.)

During this time, I got some amazing perspective from my mother, who is Buddist. She said she saw her fortune teller who told her "H will be back when the season gets cold." I sort of laughed and said "Mom, I live in Florida." With slight frustration, she said "You know what he means. You understand the time frame." But she went on to say think about it, if you knew 100% that H was going to come back, how would you act right now? What would you be doing? She said you would be living and laughing and doing whatever you wanted to do. You would play with S, have fun with friends, work, play tennis, exercise and all the while laughing at his bs as it happened because you know it will end. You would live.
Basically she told me to Act As If, but this was a different way of explaining it to me and I finally "got it".


Here's another email from July from H.

i am trying.
i am trying to figure out what is the best thing to do with my life - kind of a scary place to be right now.
i am saying that just as you need to work on sh!t on your own, i do too. we've been good for a while b/c you did stop bringing it up...(R talks) and b/c i'm still trying to figure out what's the best thing for me to do for the long haul. i know what others tell me to do. i've seen (a little too close up) what happens when you let other people sway your opinion about this stuff. that's not going to be me. so i'm going to do this at my own speed. if that's not good enough for you, i'll understand. that'll make the decision for me. but you were right about 1 thing... i want to be sure. i have always wanted to be sure. maybe my actions and decisions were a little too influenced by others leading up to this. so i need to figure this out for myself right now.
i do know that i am looking forward to taking you to dinner (at the beach) for your birthday. i did have a nice time with you last weekend. since you've been a little more "interested and involved" i like staying with you more and i have always liked sleeping in the same bed with you - especailly now that you let me cuddle up more... but i still can't trust that all that isn't bullsh!t. i still can't trust that it wont all crumble in a second. so i still am not sure. and it's going to take time to get sure. i don't want to fight with you. i know you're not happy about things i did. i know you need to decide for yourself too. so let's just leave all this in the box and bury that sh!t really deep in the forest behind the house and not go dig it up ever again. i think that will start us in the right direction to figure out what we each need and really want.

you and me being really real, that is what will help us out...
kay?

if this makes you angry, i'm sorry... but i don't want to talk anymore. not with you, not with anyone. i just want it all to stop.


There have been more emails and conversations about how he wants to keep working, at his pace and figuring things out, at his pace. I don't want to put my H out there on this board, but I think it would be important for you to see what can happen when you work on you AND you really really listen to them. Not to say I haven't screwed up since getting this email and I haven't had blow ups with him, I have. BUT things are SO much better now. As Mach1 says, I was finally able to "install the filter".
And for all of you combating the OP.....this is important for you. Last week my therapist gave me a great analogy. (Apparently that's how I need things explained to me.) In terms of the OW, I wish she had said this to me MONTHS ago....
"W, you are like a lion. You roar. You can sit there and roar the truth at H all you want. But all he hears is yelling. He's not hearing anything you say, he only knows there's yelling and arguing AGAIN.
But then OW comes along, slitering like the snake she is and whispers lies through her split tongue....smiling. And he listens because he's relaxed and NOT being yelled at. All he knows is he's not being yelled at....so he rather listen to lies than have the truth yelled at him.....stop roaring. Stop yelling."

[sumguy27]

volleydog I did what you advise:

I replied: I'm going to research optins and I want to make sure what we are doing is best for the kids.

Her reply:

Yeah well didn't you see how (S) reacted when we were arguing like crazy? You want him to see us do that everyday?

I don't want to even reply. I'm going to write something back that is going to hurt me more. So I will wait for advice. She is trying to push my buttons. I can see it now. She is trying to justify this even more with those lines.

[sumguy27]

Stronger thanks for the info. I can't and won't give up.

[volleydog]

No need to reply she's trying to push your buttons and get you into an argument you can't win.

[sumguy27]

No need to reply she's trying to push your buttons and get you into an argument you can't win.

Alright thanks I knew it was to lure me in. I'm kind of cathing on to things now. lol Took awhile.