My Intro: Thanks for Reading!

[aliveandkicking]

The only little thing that might possibly suggest that she still has feeling for me is her agreement to hold off on divorce if I stopped harassing her about seeing OM.

Sorry, but this suggests to me that she wants to be able to do what she wants without the messy ramifications of a divorce. It is emotional blackmail.

However, it does buy you time and you can get your sh*t together and be the better man in the mean time. I guess. Since you feel culpable here (which I understand), I can see the value in giving it some time.

[RedSoxFan]

Sure. When you don't give a sh!t how your spouse feels and you are confident in your new relationship, that this new man is going to be a big part of your kid's lives, why step back? Keep moving forward. Keep the sleep overs. Minimize the contact with Dad as much as possible.

She's not shutting you out of their lives. And of course his reaction will be a concern, but that's her problem.

When people want out, THEY JUST LEAVE. I've seen it twice with friends of mine. And I've bee told by others who've been divorced for years, when they left, they left. Done and nothing the other spouse said or did made any kind of difference.

All makes sense. She does need me financially right now though. She is living in our house, we both work but I am still paying way more than I would in child support if she had custody, which by the way I would fight against anything less than 50/50 to my last dollar). And she still isnt making ends meet. She says she already feels guilty taking what she does from me. I have padded her account for essentials a few times lately. Even discussed that tonight.

Not sure if any of that's relevant.

[aliveandkicking]

I get everything you're saying here except: "the more detached you are the better." What does that mean? Detach myself so I minimize my hurt when she doesn't come back to me?

There is a lot of talk here on many threads about detaching. It is not to minimize the hurt, it is IMO to:

a) get on with and enjoy your life (overcome the paralyzing fear of D and being so impacted and manipulated by W and the events that unfold)
b) stop pursuing
c) become a more attractive prospect to W or another woman in the future

There are many who believe you cannot repair or enter into a healthy relationship without detaching. It just means you are an autonomous whole person with or without your W. I know it is confusing but others can attest to the value of it.

But, you get there when you get there. To start, you've got to start forgiving yourself and focusing on your life without her.

This is just my opinion of course.

[aliveandkicking]

Sure. When you don't give a sh!t how your spouse feels and you are confident in your new relationship, that this new man is going to be a big part of your kid's lives, why step back? Keep moving forward. Keep the sleep overs. Minimize the contact with Dad as much as possible.

She's not shutting you out of their lives. And of course his reaction will be a concern, but that's her problem.

When people want out, THEY JUST LEAVE. I've seen it twice with friends of mine. And I've bee told by others who've been divorced for years, when they left, they left. Done and nothing the other spouse said or did made any kind of difference.

All makes sense. She does need me financially right now though. She is living in our house, we both work but I am still paying way more than I would in child support if she had custody, which by the way I would fight against anything less than 50/50 to my last dollar). And she still isnt making ends meet. She says she already feels guilty taking what she does from me. I have padded her account for essentials a few times lately. Even discussed that tonight.

Not sure if any of that's relevant.

Yes, it is relevant. And, Stronger, if you read many, even most of the sitches here, the WASs usually waiver and keep the S in the wings particularly in a case where this W will be worse off financially if the D happens.

I understand that those who are done "just leave" and I think that is true but, the opposite of "done" is not a loving committed secure M. Often, it is limbo and the WAS getting different needs met by two different people. Or perhaps, they are ambivalent or financially insecure or some other issue.

I could be this W in this sitch (minus the kids sleeping over at OM's). My H is gone, hooking up with other women, said he was done etc. But in a few months, if I am with a new guy and he wants back in...oy, I don't think there's much he could do other than be consistent and stable and look like the better choice. But, given my financial dependence on him, I wouldn't want him pulling the wool out and that would certainly temper my behavior whether conscious or not.

Do I make sense?

[aliveandkicking]

RedSox- I hope Gucci or Robx or another experienced guy will chime in here.

I can't even imagine what I would do in your W's shoes. But, I think you need a timeline for yourself. How long can you give her to burn this thing out with OM before you say "enough" and pull the plug?

You better be ready to do every mugga-crackin thing necessary to make this M work if you are going to push for this because you are asking a lot.

For now, I think I would back off. Live your life. Be social. Exercise, take care of yourself, enjoy your kids. And in a little while, maybe start to see which way the tide is turning for her.

[Stronger]

You are making sense, yes.

But I think in RSF's case, she's already making serious strides toward this other relationship. He told her already he wants his marriage with her to work. So now, he backs off, what message does that send?

RSF, what do you think your wife would want? I believe there are some women in your W's spot who would love for their H to fight for them. I also understand some women would want their H's to leave them alone. What does your gut tell you to do here?

[RedSoxFan]

What does she want? AND What should I do? Those are the questions I'm really struggling with.

She gets that I love her and I want to save our marriage and family. I don't think she bought the love thing at first but now I'm sure that she's sure I'm sincere. She tells me that she loves me too and is very sad about our situation. When she gives her reasons for not reconciling she does not speak definitively. She says things like she doesn't think she can do it. She doesn't believe it's possible. She feels like too much damage has been done. She says things like "I just can't right now" She also tells me that my declaring my love and desire to save the marriage has caused her to relive a lot of the pain and bad feelings from 10 months ago when I left. She says she feels like she finally made it through something that she literally thought she wouldn't live through, had gotten on her feet, was feeling pretty good. That's when I enter looking for reconciliation.

She has said several times throughout this that she just wants to be left alone. She wants everyone to leave her alone. When she says everyone she primarily means me and OM. She is feeling tons of pressure. She works full time and has a ton of activities with the kids. I do a lot of the activities but she's personally involved in some of the time consuming activities.

So here's my gut feeling and please put me in my place if I'm overly presumptuous or out of line. I think she is no where near healed as she was telling me. I think she tucked all the hurt away to keep going, I think the new guy made her feel good, I think she's very vulnerable and easily influenced right now. I think she wants to be left alone but I also think the other guy is putting a ton of pressure on her and will continue to do so. I think he has the upper hand in terms of influence but she is definitely aggravated about the pressure he is putting on her. I don't think she sees him for what he is. She thinks he's awesome and fun and loves our kids, etc. I see a guy who's using the kids as leverage against her.

I feel like I need to find a way to keep her from tucking all the feelings away again (even though there's a tone of hurt in there) without scaring her away. If she suppresses her feeling about me I think he will reel her in, at least long enough to destroy our chances for reconciliation. I don't see this guy being around in a year and honestly I don't think she does either. She said yesterday when we talked about the over exposure of our kids to him and his family that she hoped he would always be a friend and in her life and that she thought he would always want to ping the kids on facebook, etc.

So it seems like I have to stay engaged, keep the pressure up a bit, force him to continue putting pressure on while I make sure to take the high road every step of the way. I'm just not sure what that looks like.

Also, I don't know if I should continue taking care of her, giving her extra money, etc. I don't want to be used but I would like to show her that I care and that I want to take care of her. She has always put other people first and its hard to force her to do something for herself.

Another complicated issue, I have been looking at houses in a close by neighborhood so I can be in the same attendance zone as the kids. I want to be in a position to be a full 50/50 parent if things don't move forward but making the step to buy a house is huge and it's feels like almost as big a psychological barrier as a divorce would be.

[Stronger]

I think your gut feelings are the most important here. We can all advise you what to do, but ultimately, all final choices are yours. You know her. We don't.

So if you gut says fight, then fight we will!

First, money. If you can, keep helping her. You stop, that's just another avenue for him to take over.

Yes, buy a house near her. You reason is legitimate and makes complete sense AND the side benefit...you're close to her.

I think I know the answer to this, but what are the chances of you moving back into the house? My guess is no way jose.

Eventually this other guy will screw up. Let him and hope it is a big one.

Don't talk about him anymore. Unless there's a very good reason to, like the FB thing, he no longer exists. You are a thorn in his side, not the other way. Remember that and act accordingly. She will notice you never bring him up and that will make it that much more annoying when he talks about you.

So have you tried to ask her out to dinner or lunch, but on a day when you aren't working so there's no rush?

[aliveandkicking]

I agree about the "gut" feeling but also be aware that some times this requires counterintuitive action.

I think that given your expressed desire to fight for her. You should provide for her. Be a safe, considerate friend, live your life so you are happy and a desirable person. I would not ask her out right now, you know she's under pressure. I would back off for a week or so and give her the space she asked for.

I would watch out for mind-reading. More than anything, you have messed with her head and she needs space to figure her feelings out. You don't know what she feels. If my H wanted to come back at the juncture you're at, I would feel so messed with. I may not want him back but I would be miserable at the prospect of having to be responsible for saying no to him and my family being together...you see? It is a bit of a trap. She finally accepted your choice and now it is back on her. I don't know if she feels empowered by this in any way. But, depending on her personality, she may consciously or not, want to mess with you right back. Really, you don't know what she is going through.

I would want my H to SHOW me he was ready to be with me and be a family. I suppose that would mean he sets up therapy for us, he agrees to Retrovaille (google it), he makes demonstrated sacrifices to his social calendar to be with the kids and eventually us as a family.

You are attempting to undo damage you've done. I think it takes time and actions she can see are real. Anything you say you are going to do, make sure you do it (so don't overstate what you can do).

I still think you need to gain her respect too. I think you need to make sure you are fulfilled in your own life and create an environment that any woman would want to be in. She had given up on the vision of her family being together so, in time maybe being together as a family will be the strongest pull...it would be for me.

[RedSoxFan]

Yes, buy a house near her. You reason is legitimate and makes complete sense AND the side benefit...you're close to her.

I think the house is a really good option, even a necessity, if the marriage ends permanently. In the short-term it has a psychological effect of permanence much like the divorce. Regardless of what people say there is a sense of permanence to a divorce that greatly reduces the chance of long-term success. I'm worried the house will have a similar effect on her.

I think I know the answer to this, but what are the chances of you moving back into the house? My guess is no way jose.

Definitely no way jose at the moment.

Eventually this other guy will screw up. Let him and hope it is a big one.

Don't talk about him anymore. Unless there's a very good reason to, like the FB thing, he no longer exists. You are a thorn in his side, not the other way. Remember that and act accordingly. She will notice you never bring him up and that will make it that much more annoying when he talks about you.

OK. I've already told her that I won't compete with him. She knows my position and the balls in her court. It definitely gets me when he tries to compete with me by interacting with my kids. The FB really bothers me because I interact with the kids daily on FB.

So have you tried to ask her out to dinner or lunch, but on a day when you aren't working so there's no rush?

I have but she's rejected me. I think I'll let things cool for a week or two then ask again. Meanwhile OM is working it hard.