After dinner I started the conversation with "You made some very strong and inflammatory accusations this weekend."
Mistake. More effiminate. Males are typically known for NOT bringing up relationship talks. Practice self control. Remember.. Male is more "action".... Female is normally assciated with "talking things out"..
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The check was made out to both of us so I left the check, the deposit slip and the envelope on the table where I could explain it all to her later. She found it and threw a small fit - would not or could not say what she wanted instead, but was definitely upset that I was taking this action.
Much better. That is more like it. Reading between the lines though it sounds like you must have pushed her on what she wanted because you said she wouldn't say.(again this is more female type communication) Male is more "telling HER what YOU have decided. Work on this. You need to learn to allow her to bring out what you think. If she doesn't, then keep doing and communicate with action, logic, and reason. Follow through on what you say.
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After this, she started in on me again "It's not him, it's you. You've changed. Nobody changes this much! It's weird! It's creepy". I asked if she wanted to know anything about any of the changes and she replied "No, it's just weird - you are reading all these self help books, and looking inside and changing, and maybe it works for you, but it's not working for me"
Correct answer to her is.. "You are right, I have changed. I have now decided (decisive, male) I agree with you in that this isn't working for me either. ( decisive, male and also takes off pressure from her because you now agree that it isn't working.) Agree with her view and that it is now your view too. This works far better than validation)
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So, in a nutshell, the "effeminate" things she thinks are creepy are: - being introspective - being happier (no longer grumpy and critical) - being more focused on the family and the kids - trying new things - reading R and self-help books.
I don't agree. The reason is because she doesn't respect you because you won't take a stand and tell her that you are not putting up with her nonsense amymore and you don't have enough backbone to take charge here and tell her you have had enough. ACTION. (male) That is what is secretly behind her feelings of of thinking of you as effeminate. Reading the books is a by-product of this. Stop reading the books or don't let her know you are reading them. More action, less reading.
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I agreed with her, and said "You seem to have made your decision, and there is no point in just waiting around any more."
She exclaimed "I haven't made a decision!!"
Fine tune this.. More male to state it this way.. (instead of "you seem to have made a decision" (more female)
"I have made a decision and I have decided I am NOT waiting around anymore for you to make one. (male, decisive, action, logical)
The rest of your communication with her is almost all you pursuing and chasing and whining. Go back and read again all the pursuing behavior after the above quotes. It all amounts to nothing but pressure and her being defensive. The right mindset is that "you have decided... You will be able to bring up all of this stuff later. WHEN SHE is asking you what she can do to reconcile. If not, then you proceed on with what you have "decided" (decisive, logical, male)
Don't get wishy washy here. Stay strong. Stay tough. You HAVE to let her come to you. You can't do that while you are chasing her and constantly talking about how hse has hurt you etc. etc. etc. You are a big boy (mature male) and you WILL handle whatever life throws at you. And you WILL. (action)
Apparently yesterday afternoon, S4 (completely out of the blue) said to my W:
Mommy, you keep saying bad words to Daddy and Daddy keeps saying bad words to you. You both need to say you're sorry!
She told me this later as part of a long discussion she initiated by asking me about my meeting with the L.
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She was angry and upset through much of the discussion, part of it venting, and part of it justified complaints from her side (need to fix those).
But in the end of it, there were a couple of key breakthroughs:
- She said she was sorry
- She said she did not want to get divorced. She said she looks at out beautiful kids and just could never do that to them. It's too important that we both be there for them and not angry with each other right now.
- She said she is afraid of the impact that D would have on our lives (her life).
- She promised to delete OM from facebook (and did so immediately after the discussion
- When I told her "I will not accept ANY inappropriate relationships with other men" she got defensive and said "I am not going to not have male friends, or talk to men, etc", so I clarified "You may not have any relationship with another man that you would not be comfortable conducting in front of me" . She said "OK, I understand. I agree"
- She asked me (unprompted) "Would you like to go ring shopping with me?"
- She said "I AM working on our R. I think we HAVE to. That's why we are going to Retrouvaille!"
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Interesting to note that the advice I got from my L yesterday was:
"You are on the cusp of being required to pay life-long alimony. Right now you can still argue that this is a short-term marriage and spousal support is only required for a few years. Afterward you can move on with your life. If you wait longer, then you will be into "life-long" alimony, so if the marriage is going to end (an in his opinion it "most likely will") then get started now. File quickly. Don't wait"
This is coming from a L who can't represent me due to some conflicts that he has, so he wasn't looking to make any $ - his advice was free and without personal interest.
It shows why bringing in the L's can speed the whole D process onward.
Last edited by Thinker; 08/19/0905:28 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Interesting to note that the advice I got from my L yesterday was:
"You are on the cusp of being required to pay life-long alimony. Right now you can still argue that this is a short-term marriage and spousal support is only required for a few years. Afterward you can move on with your life. If you wait longer, then you will be into "life-long" alimony, so if the marriage is going to end (an in his opinion it "most likely will") then get started now. File quickly. Don't wait"
This is coming from a L who can't represent me due to some conflicts that he has, so he wasn't looking to make any $ - his advice was free and without personal interest.
It shows why bringing in the L's can speed the whole D process onward.
Just a quick note on this. My relative who is one of the top divorce Lawyers here told me that those rules are not hard and fast and lifelong alimony is much more difficult to justify if someone is of sound mind and body. He was actually encouraging me to file before the ten year mark because he said that either way I would be expected to get back to work within a reasonable time frame. Not sure if I'm making my point succinctly but I don't think this issue should influence what you do regarding filing for D.
Well, if you would take your hairdresser's advice on writing your will, by all means take your lawyer's advice on whether or not your marriage is saveable. (rolls eyes; not at you though)
Although it certainly sounds like the net result of *consulting* a lawyer has been positive in injecting a little "real world" into your wife's head. Retrouvaille (sp?) Ho!!!
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Hey, thinker, so Retrouvaille is back on?! Great! When is it? Mine is Sept 11-13. I am so happy to read your last post. I will keep praying for you, please pray I have a similar experience soon!
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
Well, if you would take your hairdresser's advice on writing your will, by all means take your lawyer's advice on whether or not your marriage is saveable. (rolls eyes; not at you though)
Yep. The L is a good guy, and very smart, but also just got D'd himself, so is basing his opinion on a small sample size (n=1)
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
