Would be curious on your honest opinion of what I sent to the W this morning. I know that this is goes against some of the rules of DB'ing. I guess some things just needed to be said.
Last night we were talking and joking a bit. I opened my big mouth and said that I took her dry cleaning in with mine in a joking manner. She flew into a rage when I said that. In the past, sometimes I wouldn’t take her dry cleaning in all the time. It kind of became a joke(or so I thought) between us over the years. It would sometimes be $40 for her things to be cleaned. Obviously something petty between us, but made me realize last night our communication issues are deeper than I thought.
I would not really tell her what I thought on things, because I was always trying to avoid her getting angry.
The letter reads:
"Well I woke up at 3am last night and couldn’t go back to sleep for some time. It was the thought in my head over and over again about the dry cleaning. It was the thought of if I can’t be honest with myself, how can I be honest with you. I truly was embarrassed that I did that and it forced me to look in the mirror again at myself. The dry cleaning is probably not the only time I did something like this to you. I think it is a good example of the things you have been thinking about. It forces me to put myself in your shoes to understand how that can make a person feel. You are my partner, my friend and why do something like this to a friend.
The truth is, the solution was always simple: Communication. The obvious reason I wouldn’t take your dry cleaning sometimes was the cost. I would not take them occasionally because when the bills got too high sometimes, I would go into cost saving mode. The thing that I should have done was to just simply say hey, are you going to be wearing this in the next week, can we hold off this week and bring it the next week instead. And explain to you why I was thinking that we needed to save money. We could have come up with some solutions together. In my mind, I was trying to avoid an argument by taking the other route. I used humor or sarcasm to get my point across vs. talking to you.
Really talking to you.
I couldn’t give you the respect you deserved regarding the finances. I am sure that is not the only time I didn’t think through a situation. I don’t know if this brings you closer or pushes you farther away. But I felt if I didn’t get this out, it would not be respecting you. I guess this is the other part of the control piece that I have come to learn about myself. As I said last night, I hope you come to know the person I am."
So, I guess I do have a side of me that isn't that nice and it does come out once in a while....
Just don't know if I came across in a way where she'll accept what I am saying in a good way vs. me just throwing up an excuse.
Remarried 6 mo S 12 S 13 S 16 SD 12 SD 16 SD 17 SS 19
Look d, There is absolutely NO way you are gonna do anything to turn this around right now.
No words, no letters, no nothing.
By doing nothing, you will feel like it is the opposite of what you need to do. Keep that in mind my friend, cause that is exactly what you need to do.
But it is also by doing nothing that will keep you in this....
Doing nothing doesn't mean keeping idle either...
Doing nothing means that you take that time and really work on you for now...
So you realized a fault that you have that led to the demise of your relationship....
Imagine is you were quiet a while longer and really did the work on yourself...How would that help your next relationship ?
And it doesn't mean that your next relationship can't be with your wife either...
You are at around 3 months ?
Your next thing will be( and you may be there already ) is that you will have this anger over the realization that this will not end quickly......
Look, I'm not gonna blast you for this, there isn't a person here that around the 3 month mark hasn't tried this.
I'll admit I did, and it did nothing but anger her more...
Don't tell her about any of your changes either....She doesn't want to hear this from you D.....
I'm going to re-post some things that I put together for myself right around the time that you are in right now....
Some things to ponder and that really helped me get through some early days....I'm not sure where I found them to give proper credit to the authors, but here goes........
I hope you get something from this....
Now there are two kinds of divorce that happen, sort of at the same time. One is the legal divorce, and the other one is the emotional divorce.
We get the two confused.
We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels.
The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.
Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.
But I say that it's the working that makes it not work.
When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.
When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.
When you argue, you're working at improving them.
When you try to reason with them.
When you tell them how much you love them.
Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.
Proof? You want proof?
Stop all of that, and watch the relationship get better.
Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your mate thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.
It's perfectly okay.
And watch them improve themselves.
Their negative feelings towards you will weaken rapidly, because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.
You have put the white flag up.
You've thrown your gun down.
That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.
It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.
Agree with them.
Do not disagree at all.
It's not to your advantage. ....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.
Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."
Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."
I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."
"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."
"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"
"Yeah, I want her back."
"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."
And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."
This is good stuff Mach. Real Good Stuff. I did get something from it. It is a constant battle inside to not say hey I get what you were trying to say all along. I am showing it everyday by my actions. I am living it. Then something petty gets brought up like dry cleaning. And you come to find out it has a much deeper meaning over the years. And you just have an epiphany and want to say wow, I do see what you were saying. It just the waiting that is hard because it takes so long when you are trying to live it everyday vs. saying "Hey I get it now" And that there are no guarantees that she will ever want you again...
Thanks for not blasting me on this one.....
Remarried 6 mo S 12 S 13 S 16 SD 12 SD 16 SD 17 SS 19
BTW....I'm not sayin don't write the letter either, just that next time you have this overwhelming desire to over anal-ize and write YOUR thoughts down, do it, and feel those thoughts, just don't send them to HER....
E-mail them to the president of your bank or mail them to the Village Idiot of Jackson , Michigan....
Hang in there D.....Once you find you, your balance isn't far behind....
This is good stuff Mach. Real Good Stuff. I did get something from it. It is a constant battle inside to not say hey I get what you were trying to say all along. I am showing it everyday by my actions. I am living it. Then something petty gets brought up like dry cleaning. And you come to find out it has a much deeper meaning over the years. And you just have an epiphany and want to say wow, I do see what you were saying. It just the waiting that is hard because it takes so long when you are trying to live it everyday vs. saying "Hey I get it now" And that there are no guarantees that she will ever want you again...
Thanks for not blasting me on this one.....
Hi D,
At the point you are at in your journey in all of this, I can't begin to tell you how hard it is to fight off the feelings of "If we could only communicate better, then we could FIX this!".
But fight those feelings off, you must. There is nothing you can say or do to "fix" this.
My good and wise friend Mach loves to point out that you can't talk yourself out of a situation that you acted yourself into. And this is SO true. When you scour the resources and threads on this board and in the archives, you will run across many, many stories of MLC spouses that, in the beginning, pointed out shortcomings in their spouses. Then the spouses do anything and everything to fix the shortcomings....and guess what?
The MLC spouse just finds something else to not like!
I'm not saying don't work on your shortcomings...far from it. What I am saying is don't just work on improving yourself in those areas to "get her back".
Do it for you.
It's an important subtlety to grasp. When you work on you to "get her back", you're just faking it long enough to get her to return.
When you work on you for you, you are creating real change. Change that makes you a better person and becomes a real, permanent part of you.
And THAT kind of change WILL show through. No letters, mentions, or references of any kind needed to garner attention to the fact that a change has been made.
Because it is genuine.
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Just read through your thread. I`m interested in the MLC aspect of things as I`m living with an MLCer too.Like your wife he too has had a very domineering parent who controlled everything and one of the things he mentioned to me eight months ago re this M crisis was that he felt everyone else was in control of his life.
It seems in his case to be a question of wanting to contol/wanting to be controlled. As he hates change and hates making decisions.
I`m intrigued by Mach`s quote"We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels."
Should we just let them roll on out of the M and go all the way down the legal route to see if that`s what they really want?
Sometimes I think my H really won`t know what he wants until he`s sitting in his rented apartment alone.
It seems in his case to be a question of wanting to contol/wanting to be controlled. As he hates change and hates making decisions.
That is not just for MLC'ers though.....EVERYONE dislikes changes, unless those changes are their own ideas...
I.E.--YOU need to change your hair color...
or
----I think I'm gonna change my hair color...
Changes should always be for yourself...
Originally Posted By: Fallgirl
I`m intrigued by Mach`s quote"We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels."
Should we just let them roll on out of the M and go all the way down the legal route to see if that`s what they really want?
My opinion ? I think that yes, to a certain degree we should. This journey isn't about us, and to really let go. We have to let them roll on with whatever will make the most difference for them.
Although it feels wrong for us, and it is a dagger through the heart, Letting them go is actually the most loving thing we can do for another person. It is a gift that WE can give them. Doesn't make us martyrs...Just people of faith, and love...
That doesn't mean to lay down and make this easy for them, if this is truly what they want, then they need to fight for it.
Just because the legal side is handled, doesn't change the emotional side of this either. As far as I know, no person has a switch that they can flip to erase everything.
Just because history has been re-written, doesn't mean it is correct....and the truth will prevail...in time
I`m interested in this part of the battle Mach-the letting them roll all the way out of the M bit-because this is the point I am at myself.
Its all to do with the control thing too of course.
I do not want S but I don`t want to stop H from leaving if that`s what he wants.
In fact, through my spiritual work recently, I really am begining to believe that whatever unfolds, no matter how unpalatable, will actually be for the best for me and the kids. I`m praying for the best possible outcome for the five of us now(yes, H included) not necessarily to save the marriage.
But H is throwing the control button back to me-"You want this separation too!" and "You book the mediation"(that`s for sorting out separation issues-NOT marriage counselling).
I`ve made it plain S is not my first option. And left it to him to book mediation. I refuse to control it in any way. Let it roll.
Sorry for the hijack D! But any input from the Mach whiz is a so worth having and deserves response.
Hope all`s going as well as can be in your camp Mach!
