Divorce not busted 2

[Thinker]

Hi Orich,

I may have missed it, but what happened to Retrouvaille?

I thought you were scheduled for the beginning of August?

[Orich]

We always used to hold hands. We always used to touch some parts of our bodies while sleeping, either our legs or feet or arms. There were many times believe it or not when we fell asleep holding hands. Now, we are in the same bed, but as far apart as possible without falling out.
I miss the physical contact so much. I have posted on here before about missing the sex of course, but we don't touch, hold hands or hug anymore.
Retro is coming soon. I think she is putting a lot of stock into the weekend, too. I think she is confused and hopes that the weekend will help her stay in the M. I hope that the love is a choice angle works with her, because her mantra has been that she doesn't feel it anymore, so it must not have been real.

[Orich]

Thinker,
I missed your post.
Our Retrouvaille weekend is the weekend of September 11. I am looking forward to it, because we are still in limboland. I am detaching as much as possible with some difficulty. I think we are both hoping that this will be a way for us to start re-connecting again.
Hows it going with you guys? You're going to Retro in Sept. as well, right?

[Orich]

I am very tired. The A/C is broken here at work, and the heat has sucked all the little bit of energy I did have. I am not going to the gym tonight. We'll see how the evening goes with W after we put the kids to bed.

[Orich]

When I got home last night, the boys started to tell me all about their day. W had to clarify a few things as they talked. After we put them to bed she asked if I was going to the gym. I told her I was tired and wanted to skip it tonight. That was the extent of any conversation between us. 20 minutes later she is in bed sleeping. I know she was tired, she had texted earlier in the day about something and added that she was tired. Usually she tells me she is going in to bed, not this time.
Now, normally I would have followed her into the bedroom and found something to ask her about just to get her to talk. Last night I didn't I sat on the couch and unwound watching a little TV. about an hour later I went to bed.
Today she is supposed to find out from her sister if we all (kids included) are going to go on a trip to Mystic. If her sister says yes, I am going to book the hotel and get tickets, etc. If her sister is not into it, I don't know if we are going to go without them. I thought we would, but I can't tell which way W is leaning. I will find out today.
Further bulletins as events warrant.

[25yearsmlc]

Retrovaille will focus on communication in a way that is new to you both. Trust them. THe couples hosting it have hard HARD stories to share, and yet are together now, and happy. You will NOT have to share openly with others. It's not a group dynamic. It does say "love is a decision" among other things.

I can't say too much b/c I don't want her to think of reasons not to go or to feel too much pressure but obviously it DOES include couples who want to end their m and are "checking this off" their list so they can say they "tried everything". At least one woman UNpacked her suitcases after the workshop and decided to stay in the M a bit longer. There are follow up sessions you should attend b/c it is NOT just a weekend. It's a change in how you approach each other. Do the work. But don't think you'll leave with all your problems solved.

For me, it was about reconnecting w/ h in a way that makes me feel we are again on the same team. Therefore, the issues we face seem easier, and I trust him more. We had to overcome the basic forgiveness and releasing hurdle so we can be "in the now".

For us, our reaction to Retrovaille was stronger than many but no one failed to benefit. Were all the M's saved? Don't know. I read that 2 years later over 80% are still together. But you will have to do the work. And don't worry that she's shy. Believe me, some people said nothing "public" the whole time. Doesn't matter. Just go, and listen, and trust the process and do NOT worry about whether she's getting it. My h had his break through an hour before the end...
(( j- ))

[Orich]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am in the middle of a rough couple of days and I really needed some encouragement.

[sandi2]

Hi Orich,

Just wanted to tell you that you are hanging in there good. I have learned (I hope) when I am confronted with an uncomfortable situation like you were with the family, just act sweet, nice, & friendly....don't be loud and an attention seeker, and most people will almost have to be nice to your face...lol. They are going to say whatever behind your back regardless of how you are. You did a good job.

[Orich]

Thanks, Sandi. I needed the boost.
She isn't even really talking to me. She is avoiding me even here at home. Her only acknowledgement she has given me so far was to ask me if I was going to the gym tonight. I don't know what has changed. It's like all of a sudden she has shut down to me. We texted during the day, but only for kid reasons.
Well, I am going to the gym after the kids are in bed. At least there people don't talk to you because they don't know you.

[BigJohn]

I know I tell all of you this several times, but it is my way of trying to give you hope...I look back at how I was from where I am today and it so embarrassing! I would about die if others found out about it. I don't know who that woman was, but she was not the Sandi I had always been or that I am now. So, I'm trying to tell you that there is hope and that your W does not have to stay like this, but most of it is her personal decision. That's not to say your actions won't influence her decisions. It took me a long time.

Sandi,

This is an interesting point- about Orich's W's decision to stay in WAW mode. I've felt like I've picked up on that with my W too. Specifically when my W and I have had calm but substantive R talks in the past- when we get past the layers of fantasy/make believe- that is when my W starts talking about being fearful about giving her heart back to me, how she knows it will never work, I won't change, etc. It's almost like the WAW mentality is not just about living and experiencing her fantasy of choice but it is also like a defense and empowerment mechanism of sorts. It's like my W developing and seeing some sort of "super b*tch" persona as a means of effectively dealing with me and being afraid to give it up for fear of being hurt again.

I may be completely off base here, just my two cents for Orich and my other fellow LBHs wondering if there isn't anything left of the W they knew still residing inside their WAW- even if it's only a glimpse.