Over the Shock and GALing 6

[aliveandkicking]

"I no longer wish to be married to you and am going to move ahead with the divorce process"

You can find a more "manly" way to say that.

[bluerain]

hi thinker, I would ask her what you would differently do if you WERENT being effeminate?

BTW, I know that lots of people hate guns, but I read once that after a man handles a handgun he has higher levels of testosterone. Dont know if its true, but maybe you could join a gun club? I like shooting, its a great way to blow off steam. And the MMA fighting, um, I think that its called UFC, Ive heard that watching that makes people more aggressive. I think that its disgusting, but its a pretty man-type thing to do!

Do you think that theres anything to what shes saying? Have you ever had your hormone levels checked?

[Thinker]

hi thinker, I would ask her what you would differently do if you WERENT being effeminate?

Good turn around on the question I actually asked...( while thinking WTF?...) "Can you give me some examples of when I was acting effeminate?" - a better phrasing.

Do you think that theres anything to what shes saying? Have you ever had your hormone levels checked?

I don't actually think it is anything real or physical, but is a clear perception on her part in response to the fact that I have historically avoided conflict and uncomfortable situations that I left her in the drivers seat of the R (and other aspects of our joint lives in general) for a long time.

I also think part of it is her reaction to my implementation of some of the standard DB recommendations: dress better, wear cologne, get out and try new things (shooting clubs were not in the list, but is actually planned. I did spend an evening watching UFC with her brothers ) , meet new people, etc. She keeps coming back to "All these new changes are just weird and are creeping me out"

She has also gotten nervous about the fact that I am seeing an IC, but doesn't really understand about what. (About my F--king Marriage!!)

I guess the good part is that she's noticed, and I'm keeping her on her toes. The bad part is...

[Kettricken]

You're changing, it's shaking up her status quo, she can't control it, and it's freaking her out.

Also, she's involved with another man/men so her sad little cricket is just dyin' to find something radically wrong with you to justify herself.

The self-examination is all well and good in the long run regardless, but remember her allegations may have exactly zero relevance to any sane perception of you before you devote much time to learning how to kill large animals with your bare hands or anything.

Also, a REAL man cares about manifesting masculinity in ways that seems authentic to *him*, not anyone else. IMHO.

[Thinker]

Thanks Kettricken,

No, no bowhunting for bears in my near future, but I am concerned about fixing the very real issue of perception in the eyes of my W.

I am concerned that the way I respond to this allegation of hers has the potential to push me a lot in one direction or another. It's kind of a losers argument: let it go by, and appear weak, react too strongly and appear overly defensive, etc.

In general, I don't feel either effeminate or weak, so the charges really come at me out of left field, adding to my general confusion. I am also now pretty happy with who I am (with the noted exception of improving the ways I deal with conflict and difficult situations - and even those are not horrible, just have room for improvement)

Coming from her, however, the allegations hurt and piss me off, so I have a hard time keeping my emotions in check - I either shut down to impassive, or get angry and irrational.

I am trying to rationally work through how I want to feel and how I want to respond before I talk to her in person tomorrow.

Also, a REAL man cares about manifesting masculinity in ways that seems authentic to *him*, not anyone else. IMHO.

That goes back a bit to my first post on the topic, where I ranted a bit about her perceptions of authentic masculinity seeming to revert back to high school days - if that is so, then I have no desire to even try to match it.

[C-Bart]

In general, I don't feel either effeminate or weak, so the charges really come at me out of left field, adding to my general confusion. I am also now pretty happy with who I am (with the noted exception of improving the ways I deal with conflict and difficult situations - and even those are not horrible, just have room for improvement)

This is the most important part of your entire post. If you are happy with who you are who cares about the opinion of less than rational person (she is not the W you used to know right now). We all say things to hurt each other. That just seems to be the name of the game. She found a good one as it has you all wrapped around the axle. IMHO this is a loose - loose for you if you choose to pursue it any further. This is not the hill you want to die on. Keep pushing forward with your "new" way of life. She is noticing and now the ball is in her court (to use a manly expression;-))

Good luck. Keep in mind you've made it 41 years to this point so you must be doing something right.

Watching a bunch of half naked men, UFC, hugging each other is masculine? Crap there goes my man card. I better go watch a little extra ESPN.

[Thinker]

Thanks C-Bart,

I have to keep in mind, however, that I really don't think she is saying it to hurt me. It is an expression of her feelings, so it is her perception of the truth.

[Thinker]

Now I am back to being just plain angry.

[bluerain]

[quote=bluerain] "Can you give me some examples of when I was acting effeminate?" - a better phrasing.

I think that this puts people on the defensive. Like you have to recall every time your spouse did A,B or C.

And I also agree that a "Real man" should be comfortable enough with his masculinity to not have to prove anything to anyone. But I guess its not always that simple.

And thinker, Im glad your angry. You deserve to be!

[theroadback]

You need to take her feelings on this issue very seriously. When a woman starts viewing a man in that way, he is toast as far as a romantic relationship is concerned. You may need to get the book "Men Women and Relationships by John Gray. He touches on this very subject in this book and what happens when a man and woman have this dynamic going on. She loses all romantic and sexual interest in him. Essentially, she becomes the male and he becomes the female in the relationship. None of which is good. He calls it "role reversal." He wants to talk more and more about the relationship and how she has hurt him (more feminine qualitites) and she doesn't want to talk about it (more masucline qualities) He is more into " his feelings" and constantly wanting to talk about "the relationship and his feelings and such and she is more logical and wants to "sigh" and thinks to herself "not another relationship talk." etc. etc. role reversal.

Well Gucci, you just gave me a major Holly Sh*t moment. That was me and few months ago! saying; we should try, we should talk, we should spend more time together... OMG! I should have put on one of her dresses while I was saying it. That would have completed the picture.
I thought something was strange, I actually felt the role reversal but I did not realize it until I read this ...thank you!

"I noticed that although you promised to delete him, you have not done so. Please do so. It is important."

Thinker, you must admit this does sound like a girl...just replace the him with her...