In Utter Agony...Long 1st Post

[eternaloptimist]

Thanks, Dia. Do you think cutting off all contact helps? I don't mean going dark. But, I can't completely cut off contact because of our son. My husband stops by at least once a day and calls me sometimes more than once a day too, usually to complain to me that his landline and cell phone connects are terrible. I try to not answer his calls directly and let the voicemail pick up. But our son has been sick, so I've needed to communicate with him.

We had pizza together as a family last Friday. Should I invite him again for this Friday or just wait to see if he asks about it? My IC thinks it's a bad idea to do it again b/c it may be more confusing for our son.

Thanks for reading my posts!

[eternaloptimist]

Just posting again in case anyone can share some insights on being separated and the heartbreak that one experiences. Trying to stay positive but detach at the same time. Sometimes I just dread when he calls or stops by because I don't feel like I have much privacy. He still has a key/garage door opener to the house, still helps himself to whatever food is in the refrigerator, still mows the grass, still acts considerate and takes the recycling to the garage, etc. He's pretty anal-retentive like me, so trying not to read too much into it. I am trying to notice the little signs though...

1) He seems much less angry on the phone and in person now.
2) I let him do most of the talking; when he goes on and on about his day or troubles, I just try to stay positive and keep things light. I always talk less than he does.
3) He actually gave me a HUG last night when he left the house.
4) Any requests to do anything with our son, I always put my plans second and give him priority to spend time with him. I'd do this no matter what just because I think it's the right thing to do since I see our son about 80% of the time.

Any advice from people who successfully reconciled? I know I have to have patience.

[Coach]

EO, I will respond more later. Is the sitch with the therapist totally busted up? What were some of the problems in your marriage? What 180s are working? What are his LLs?
I agree with the threapaist about confusing your son with pizza night. Maybe you two could go out to eat.
I reconciled after getting served D papers and my wife moving out. I understand the pain and thoughts running thru your head. You can handle it.

Cheers

[eternaloptimist]

EO, I will respond more later. Is the sitch with the therapist totally busted up? What were some of the problems in your marriage? What 180s are working? What are his LLs?
I agree with the threapaist about confusing your son with pizza night. Maybe you two could go out to eat.
I reconciled after getting served D papers and my wife moving out. I understand the pain and thoughts running thru your head. You can handle it.

Cheers

Thanks, Coach. (Hugs) Thanks so much for your post. I feel so alone because I don't know anyone where I live who is separated. (I tried to find a support group but haven't had any luck.) It's pretty clear that my Husband has borderline personality disorder. His rage continues even now that he's moved out. He blames me for everything. I've done everything I can to contradict what he blames me for. Before he moved out, he tried to draw me into conflict any time he could, even saying he was waiting for me to go all "Fatal Attraction" on him after he moved out. I was shocked at his paranoia and accusations. I couldn't understand why he'd even say that to me because I haven't pursued him at all, not even a phone call unless he calls me first. I've been DBing for months. It's all just so ironic...everything he accuses me of doing he turns around and does himself. My heart wants to hold on to our marriage and family. But the more distance I get from his rage, the more I see him as having a mental illness that is damaging to me and our son. If he would get into therapy, I would probably reconsider. I've been in therapy since April to cope with all of this. My Dad has a mental illness, so I have endless empathy, which is why I guess I tolerated all of his rage for so long. I thought I was sticking by him...then he turns around and wants a divorce.

I'm pretty sure the therapist sitch has been over since May. My husband is just too unhappy to be having an affair. Then again, I could be wrong. I've not seen his apartment yet and when I've offered to bring our son there, he makes every excuse so that I don't come there. Should I be suspicious?

The problems in our marriage are wide and deep---lots of loss and one tragedy after the other. I betrayed his trust 12 years ago when I was unhappy and told him I wanted a divorce. I was also financially unfaithful to him several times in recent years regarding my student loans and credit cards, and he never forgave me, even though we renewed our marriage vows. I totally own that I did not change enough and broke his trust. But I truly made the choice to love him for who he is, good and bad, and I loved him despite him treating me with contempt for years. Then one of his best friends was murdered in 2006. After this tragedy, we made some life-altering decisions to move, buy/sell houses, change jobs, that negatively affected our lives. The consequence of that was my husband didn't honor himself in any of the decisions. I think these things culminated in 2007 and pushed him mentally over the edge to the point that he left the marriage emotionally. That is when he emotionally detached from me and started relying on two other women to meet his emotional needs. I thought I was giving him the space he kept demanding.

I don't know if my "no contact" 180 is working. Maybe that is just pushing him further away? I'm at such a loss on what to do because no matter what, he finds something to rage at me about. If I'm nice, he gets pissed. If I offer him any of the extra food I have, he gets mad. I never was a nag in our marriage, never made any demands of any kind, basically he could go anywhere/do anything and I never questioned it. I trusted him. I think one of his LL is acts of service and words of affirmation b/c he says that some of the things I said to him out of anger were the "last straw." So conversely, I think the positive things would be valued. He doesn't care about physical touch or gifts.

On the day he moved out, I gave him his favorite cookies, a Little Golden Book called "I Love You Daddy," from our son, and a card from me that basically said that I am thinking of him and that I will always care about him. He read it and cried and said, "We both F----ed up our marriage."

Today, when he picked up our son, he raged at me and said he was having a bad day. I didn't ask any questions, just sad I was sorry he was having such a bad day. He stormed out with our son. He was supposed to have him until 6 pm. He called me at 3 pm and said "I'm done with him for the day and going back to the house." Done with him? (Sigh) So I got home early at 4 pm and then he just raged at me. He questioned who I was with, said I was being "prickish" to say I was with friends and didn't tell him who it was. Then he said he wanted me to pay him $2 for the gas he had to put in the lawnmower. When I gave him the money, he threw it back at me.

I'm just so exhausted...

[aliveandkicking]

Do these outbursts happen in front of your son?

[eternaloptimist]

Unfortunately, yes.

I realize now that I just engaged his rage these past few months, which just "fed into his hands" about blaming me for all that is wrong with his life. So he projected all of this rage and hate at me. Even when I found out that he wanted to have an affair (I found an almost-new box of condoms, missing only one, in the garbage can, and he told me point blank that he wanted to have an affair), he told me that he was trying to see if he could "alleviate his unhappiness." I think now that I found out about the therapist, which was likely an EA not a PA, and when I wouldn't let it go after only 2 weeks, he couldn't take the humiliation or guilt and said I'd never be able to forgive him (which is not true). It all just escalated from there because he kept stringing me along, telling me that maybe he'd work on the marriage vs. divorce. He was taking time to think things through. We had a big fight one night back in June and he said he was "done" and that I'd never know what his decision would be. After that, the snooping I did to find out about the therapist eroded his trust and his ability to live in the house. He then decided to move out.

So here I am now in the house with our son and his daily rage when he drops off our son...threats that he's going to put the house up for sale soon...little jabs about who I'm with, if it's a boyfriend so that he's off the hook for the mortgage payment. The stress has been awful, not to mention damaging to our son.

[eternaloptimist]

Anyone have any advice on trying to figure out some 180s? I feel like I'm "dead in the water" with our marriage. The only time we talk is for 5 minutes at drop off, or if he's angry and wants to pick a fight with me.

[C-Bart]

One thing that may help is to change the place were you and H exchange custody. Make it a more public place. Don't put yourself in a position to be alone with him. Do you have a regular visitation schedule? Separation agreement?

[eternaloptimist]

One thing that may help is to change the place were you and H exchange custody. Make it a more public place. Don't put yourself in a position to be alone with him. Do you have a regular visitation schedule? Separation agreement?

Hi and thanks for your ideas. Yeah, I've been thinking that having him at the house has not been good. He still has a key and walks right in, helps himself to whatever food he wants, gets the mail, etc. I never say anything or get angry---no conflict is my motto!

Our visitation schedule has been sort of regular. He sees our son each day after school to pick him up and then stays in our house with him until I get home. I has been seeing him only on Saturdays for a day-long visit, no overnights yet. I thought that would be good for our son b/c of consistency but it leaves me feeling like I have no privacy and have to make sure anything personal in the house is packed away. I can't live like that for much longer.

We have a separation agreement with a lot of detail; I have exclusive occupancy of the house for at least a year. But yesterday he threatened to "put the house on the market" b/c he said he can't survive (financially) for a year. So at any time, I feel like he can pull the rug out from underneath me and our son, and keep me as miserable as he is. I guess that is the point, huh? He is suffering still, blaming me still, and wants to keep me in his inner turmoil. Perhaps the best thing I can do is separate myself from that as much as possible so he can see that his innner suffering really isn't b/c of me. Somehow though, I think he still blames me no matter what b/c he has more or less said so.

[C-Bart]

He still has a key and walks right in, helps himself to whatever food he wants, gets the mail, etc. I never say anything or get angry---no conflict is my motto!

You are not creating conflict by maintaining boundaries. Conflict comes from lack of clarity. You H is testing you every day to see what he can get away with. Exclusive means exclusive.

W and I had a similar agreement yet she would always come by and hang out to "be with the kids" . I went along with it because of my need to be close to her. What I was doing was showing her she could do whatever she wanted without consequence. At the same time I was feeding into her lack of respect for me and pushing her further away.

He sees our son each day after school to pick him up and then stays in our house with him until I get home.

Anyway for H to take S to his house? The less time your H spends in your house the better off you will feel.

.. yesterday he threatened to "put the house on the market" b/c he said he can't survive (financially) for a year. So at any time, I feel like he can pull the rug out from underneath me and our son, and keep me as miserable as he is.

Not sure how he could do this without your participation. Legal conversation? Even if he could what is the worst thing that could happen? You have to move to a new and exciting place? You sound like someone who is fully capable of taking care of yourself and your S.

I guess that is the point, huh? He is suffering still, blaming me still, and wants to keep me in his inner turmoil.

Yepper. I know I've been on the delivery and receiving end of this. Guilt is a wonderful tool for someone who does not want to face their own issues.

Perhaps the best thing I can do is separate myself from that as much as possible so he can see that his innner suffering really isn't b/c of me. Somehow though, I think he still blames me no matter what b/c he has more or less said so.

I think you are onto something here. The interesting thing you will see is unless he makes some changes in his life he will be in the same lousy place he has been. This can be one of the hardest things to watch your loved one go through. Chances are he will find something else to either blame or use a cure. The entire time you will be standing by shaking your head. The only way we can influence this is by out example, taking care of ourselves, getting our life straight.

Do you truly believe that you are not responsible for his current state of mind?