In Limbo

[d1adsl5a]

I think there is nothing left I have to say to her anyway. Pretty sure I got everything out last Thursday....I even told her that she may have thought I was hearing her all these years, however, most of the time she just yelled and I missed what she was trying to really say. I said that is why most of her friends, family have come to me in the past because they were afraid to speak to her because of her volatile reactions. It was just something that needed to be said..I get tired of her saying she can forgive but not forget. The fact is she knows that I have been working on myself and that I am different. She has admitted this to friends. She hasn't done the work on herself....Sorry I digressed..

But, I have had three full days of being happy, not arguing. She even through a dagger at me Saturday and I just let it roll off my shoulder. Odd thing is that besides her telling me she wanted the divorce thursday when I pushed for an answer, the next day I asked if she had any regrets, she said no. Two minutes later she tells me that she quit her therapist because she was leading her down the divorce path. The next day she invites me out to a fundraiser for our anniversary on Aug. 27. I light heartedly accepted. Talk about a roller coaster ride. I was not even planning on being around on our anniversary.

I have been doing a couple 180's that appear to be having a little bit of effect. I started cooking. Never knew I liked to cook. I also went and bought a bunch of casual clothes. Haven't bought anything for myself except suits and ties in 10 years. Good to get my sense of style back as well. Been making sure I always look "attractive" around the house. I also started taking a boxing class in addition to my daily workout routine. When she goes out, I don't ask anymore. I don't get mad the next day either. I try not to be home when she leaves(don't want to see her in her Cougar outfits). I am sleeping when she comes home.

Also, making notes of what works and what doesn't. Have found that being the person to initiate or carry on a conversation is working. Found that waiting for her to bring up something makes me look like I am cowering or resentful...

For my GAL's I have just been trying to go out more. With and without the kids. I can tell when I am gone all day with our sons, it does bother her that she is not with us. The problem is that she chose to not speak to my family anymore or my(our) friends. She knows that they know the truth about what happened and feels uncomfortable with them. She doesn't want me out with her college friends(this is her group). Which is why we don't go out with anyone else except as a family.

Thanks for your confidence.

[25yearsmlc]

There IS hope. But don't blow it. You are here to learn and my advice is not to resist what a bunch of people tell you. It's one thing if there's disagreement and different approaches but your post is consistently filled with "BACK OFF!"s and you need to do that. "NO R TALK" no taking the bait, etc etc. Stop asking her about her feelings or the divorce and LEARN TO LIVE IN LIMBO AND for now, ACCEPT IT....it is better than divorce right now, isn't it? When it is NOT better than divorce, you'll know. Until that time comes IF it does, stop fighting that b/c a lot of us lived in limbo for years. If you can't, you'll know. But try to be in the now, for now. Enjoy what there is in the day, that you can... And read up on Detachment!

I think you are getting it. But yes there is hope. There are success stories. Is she open to attending Retrovaille? It's a workshop for troubled marriages. We attended it recently and found it pleasantly surprising and very very helpful. There are couples there who have had it harder than us/you and their stories are truly inspirational (I recall thinking, "Geez, if THEY can get thru THAT and be happy again, there IS hope for us too). And there is.

I mean it when I say that their stories are inspirational b/c nothing you've written has matched what they went through, yet they didn't just survive with their M's intact, but they learned to thrive again. It can be done. Don't blow this, DB your best. Protect your sons and if you can, reassure them as much as you can. They need that MORE now. No matter what.

(( j ))

[ginab1966]

Hi:

I'm very new here. Joined today in fact. I really, really wish that I had some words of encouragement. All I wanted to say is that I am right where you are. In the same house, living with a man who says he doesn't love me now nor could he imagine ever loving me again. He wants nothing more than a divorce and his freedom. So emotionally detached that I cannot imagine being able to draw him back. But I love him and will do whatever it takes. We have a 4 year old daughter who is so beautiful, wonderful and special. It breaks my heart to know that I might not be able to fix this and it's definately, partially my fault.

I saw you post and and have read everything all the peeps have given you for advice and I'm almost living vicariously through your post (I finally posted today to the newcomers area). What I mean is I'm using the advice you are getting. I"m so new at this and what you are being told to do seems so hard but you're giving me strength because you're doing it and doing it so well. You've had moments in there where you've sort of fell into her trap but I'm just so proud of you and hope that I can remain strong too.

I've been saying that I've been in limbo too but someone reminded me at a meeting last night that I'm not in limbo. I know just what I want and where I'm heading. H is the one in limbo. He may want a divorce and to be out of the house....but he's still there. And as long as they are we still have some hope, right? Even when they leave I guess there's hope.

Well, I know I'm rambling but I just wanted to say that tonight when you close your eyes, just know that there is someone who is going through the same things as you and hopefully that will give us both strength. Our children and our marriages deserve our committment...100%. It may not be pretty or even "ok" but we're in it. I just hope we get what we're praying for.

Take good care of yourself. I'll say a prayer for you and the boys and for her too.

Gina

[ginab1966]

Oooops. I meant to reply to you but replied to the poster underneath you. Sorry. See, I really am a newbie.

[25yearsmlc]

I think there is nothing left I have to say to her anyway. Pretty sure I got everything out last Thursday....I even told her that she may have thought I was hearing her all these years, however, most of the time she just yelled and I missed what she was trying to really say. I said that is why most of her friends, family have come to me in the past because they were afraid to speak to her because of her volatile reactions. It was just something that needed to be said..I get tired of her saying she can forgive but not forget. The fact is she knows that I have been working on myself and that I am different. She has admitted this to friends. She hasn't done the work on herself... NOT YOUR PROBLEM OR CONCERN AT ALL.....PLUS YOU ARE MIND READING, AND NEGATIVELY AT THAT..

.Sorry I digressed..

But, I have had three full days of being happy, not arguing. She even through a dagger at me Saturday and I just let it roll off my shoulder. Odd thing is that besides her telling me she wanted the divorce thursday when I pushed for an answer,
WHICH YOU NOW KNOW IS #1 THING NOT TO DO...NO PUSHING -- ESPECIALLY FOR ANSWERS YOU DO NOT WANT. DID YOU THINK SHE'D SAY, "GEE, NOW THAT YOU CORNERED ME, I DO WANT TO STAY M AND WORK AT THE M"...?? NOT LIKELY -SO DON'T DO IT AGAIN...

the next day I asked if she had any regrets, she said no. STOP ASKING!! OMG!! COME ON NOW....

Two minutes later she tells me that she quit her therapist because she was leading her down the divorce path. The next day she invites me out to a fundraiser for our anniversary on Aug. 27. I light heartedly accepted. Talk about a roller coaster ride. I was not even planning on being around on our anniversary.

I have been doing a couple 180's that appear to be having a little bit of effect.

NO TEMPERATURE TAKING of the M FOR AT LEAST A MONTH THOUGH YOU'LL KNOW SOONER IF IT'S BACKFIRING...UNLESS, UNLESS THEY QUESTION WHETHER YOUR CHANGE IS REAL... then keep it going. Usually you won't know for a good 2-4 months if a change is even noticed although it WILL BE sooner, they won't let on. Don't worry about that b/c you are changing FOR YOU, not them or their reaction. Drill this into your head and heart....IT TAKES TIME FOR ANYONE TO BELIEVE A CHANGE IS REAL AND ONLY THEN CAN THEY REACT TO IT. IF YOU ARE ONLY GAL AND DOING 180'S TO GET HER BACK THEN IT IS NOT A CHANGE....IT'S A TACTIC AND WILL BE SEEN AS MANIPULATION, WHICH IT REALLY IS.....SO TIME + YOUR CONSISTENT CHANGES = HER PERCEPTIONS OF YOU CHANGING.... Don't keep checking on her or it'll look like a tactic and you will defeat yourself.


I started cooking. Never knew I liked to cook. I also went and bought a bunch of casual clothes. Haven't bought anything for myself except suits and ties in 10 years. Good to get my sense of style back as well. Been making sure I always look "attractive" around the house. I also started taking a boxing class in addition to my daily workout routine. When she goes out, I don't ask anymore. I don't get mad the next day either. I try not to be home when she leaves(don't want to see her in her Cougar outfits). I am sleeping when she comes home.

Good stuff although is the sleeping what you need to do? Just curious. the rest is great stuff and great GAL starts...how about a class or hobby taking? Something that involves others...?

[color:#CC0000]Also, making notes of what works and what doesn't. [color:#FF0000]AWFULLY SOON TO DO THAT...see note before...
[/color][/color]
Have found that being the person to initiate or carry on a conversation is working. Found that waiting for her to bring up something makes me look like I am cowering or resentful...

You sure about that? I mean trust your instincts, but don't mind read too much. You'll find that's a tough balancing act. Read up on DETACHMENT, BIG TIME...

For my GAL's I have just been trying to go out more. With and without the kids. I can tell when I am gone all day with our sons, it does bother her that she is not with us.
GOOD, WELCOME TO BEING A SINGLE MOM...OH WELL....IT'S CALLED "REALITY THERAPY" AND IT AIN'T ALL FUN AND GAMES...AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT BEING PUNITIVE OR PETTY, THIS IS FINE...

The problem is that she chose to not speak to my family anymore or my(our) friends. She knows that they know the truth about what happened and feels uncomfortable with them. She doesn't want me out with her college friends(this is her group). Which is why we don't go out with anyone else except as a family.
THEN YOU MUST MODEL FORGIVENESS AS BEST YOU CAN SO SHE CAN FEEL COMFORTABLE AND ASK YOUR FAMILY FOR THEIR UNDERSTANDING AT THIS TIME....even if you have not forgiven her yet, and of course you are only starting to, STILL she must believe it's attainable or this IS hopeless. Forgiveness is crucial for ANY of our m's to survive, let alone thrive, which is really what we all want. So do as my DB coach said long ago and 'KEEP THE ROAD HOME PAVED AND SMOOTH....don't make it any harder for her to come back than it already would be...not excusing abusive behavior, but not making her road harder...make sense?

Thanks for your confidence.

There's a reason we have some confidence and hope in your situation and it has to do with the realities of her words and actions and confusion AND in your ability to learn and change. IT can be done and I see it all the time. If you can get her to Retrovaille, you may find yourself a miracle. My h and I did. I highly recommend it...couples with problems worse than yours or ours, have actually succeeded in making their m's happy again.

Amazing....but true.

J-

[25yearsmlc]

Please don't think that means you should put up with the crazy temper tantrums. A real 180' on your end is NOT putting up with them. Somehow if she could calm down around you (b/c YOU model that calmness) she may find you bring out the better things in her, and for that she'll feel something good. As long as she's yelling at you, she's miserable and blaming her misery outwards...what a loss for all.

Don't put up with it. BE strong and show her the respect you demand, expect and don't tolerate less. But you can only carry this off If YOU maintain control over yourself and don't get sucked into her vortex....ignore the alien spew she throws at you....that's from Mars and you don't need it.

Got it? good....

J-

[d1adsl5a]

Thanks for your direct commentary. It does give me strength to continue to push forward. I promise to you and myself, I will not bring up the relationship, ask if there were regrets...etc..I actually told her I am going out on my friends boat on lake MI. saturday with a bunch of people. I was on day 6 of being happy, keeping things calm at home.


Until I noticed in our sent file on our home email the following letter to two of her best friends that no longer speak with her. I will just copy the portion that talks about me. I still speak to these two friends of hers. She doesn't know this. They think she is lost and can't understand why she is doing this either....My W has no idea(and will never) that I have spoken to them over the last 3 months.

The letter reads:

"1st and foremost I think I am sad. I am sad because the two people in my life that I was the closest to dumped me when I needed them the most. I have no one I can turn to anymore. I am so lost and alone. I was always there for the two of you. I would drop everything if you needed to talk about what was going on in your life. I felt like we were sisters. I am writing to the both of you together because we have no secrets between us and I feel that you both need to hear what I need to say. Some of this letter is going to sound mean but I cannot help that I need to get if off my chest. I feel this is the only way to get a new friendship back if there is anything left between us.

I am 1st going to explain my husband and I so you can understand what I am going through. I am not going to bad mouth him, he is a good person, father and friend. These are my feelings of what I am going through and not his. Control, if very hard to explain and I know you both experienced this in your life at one point or another. Growing up I had a very controlling Father. I was never able to do things like I wanted. I was never good enough for my Father. I wasn't smart enough, pretty enough, thin enough, or good enough for anyone. He repeatedly told me this my entire life, still to this day. So I tried to rebel, that didn't work it made my father and I more distant. As I grew older I didn't want to rebel anymore, I turned into the person my Dad wanted me to be. I met my Husband and my Father was finally happy with my decision I felt close to my Dad again. I know I loved my husband or I wouldn't have married him, so I think I was. Since we were dating it has always been about him. There is so much I cannot even begin to write it all down. We have tried to work on it for the past 10 years, and I have tried to work on it silently for the past 17 years. I am such a pleaser that I just forgot my feelings and just hoped it would pass. I met so many people that were happy in their marriages that I wanted that so much for me and us but I knew deep down inside I wasn't happy. When I would hear stories of divorce or people that were struggling in their relationships I just wanted to help them so much and talk them into staying together because I wanted that for me. I thought if I kept helping others it would help me in a way and talk me out of what I was feeling.

So now I am almost 40 and I want so much to grow up. I went from a controlling father to a controlling husband never being on my own. This is what I am struggling with. I feel stupid, I have no self confidence in my self. I am a 40 year old idiot in the 21 century that cannot do anything for herself because I was never allowed or able too. I may seem like I have all the confidence in the world on the outside but deep down inside I am still a 12 year old looking for her father's acceptance.

I no longer can live that way. It is killing me. I am saying good bye to the old person I have to for my boys and for my future. I don't know where that is going to leave me within this community, my husband and me and you guys and me but I don't want to die I want to live for myself and my boys. I want to be a strong women for my boys and a good mother. And thats what I was doing inside, dying a slow death."

OK so you this is her opinion of me. When she says we have been working on it for 10 years, I have to question what the heck she is talking about...She may think I have controlled her, but I have never stopped her from doing anything. I do understand how she thought I was controlling and I have communicated to her I get it and she knows that I am working on it. In fact she has admitted to others that I have become a new person--However, she remains steadfast in her convictions as you can see above. Would love your opinion on what she is saying in her note above..

[d1adsl5a]

These are things that definitely keep you going. Knowing there are others going through the same pain that you are and gaining stregth from others. Everyday you get a bit stronger, then there will be something that will knock you back. As you will see in the letter my W sent to her friends about me. She doesn't know that I have seen the letter she sent. But it is those things that can just shake you to the core. It hurts when your wife or your husband says they don't love you. You think, what is wrong with me. It isn't us. It is them. We can't fix them. There is nothing I can say or do to accept work on me. This is easy to say, but it is pain the that is horrible. I like to call it "The Great Saddenss" not only for me, but our sons. She has no idea how this will truly affect them. But you, me all of us have to go home and act happy. Like we are getting on with our lives. And you hope for the day our spouses come home and say "my god what have I done." But you know deep down it hurts every day. I thank you for your prayers. I thank you for your support. I hope your husband figures it out as well. Right now the love for our spouses has to be enough for both of them. I will pray for strength for you and the well being of your daughter.

[25yearsmlc]

Your w has no idea what damage SHE will be doing to the boys if she carries through with this. Then she'll have some REAL self esteem issues. Hope she gets help.

talk to you later this week,
j-

[faithisbelieving]

Find Iamlost's last thread and read her post on cognitive dissonance. FIB