Divorce not busted 2

[cat04]

O-

I have finally caught up on your 55 page thread. What makes you so special? LOL.

Listen, you are handling this ok. Go with your gut on the OM thing. It is easy for all of us to point out red flags and it is done because people want the best for you, but only you know for sure if there is not one.

Personally, I do see some sort of identity crisis at play here and that makes things difficult. But I see a lot of stuff you have posted lately that are more red flags and signs for you if you go back and read. Bear with me and I will point them out.

1. Your sexual frustration. You are a man and it is completly understandable that you are frustrated, but you have to figure out a way to handle it yourself or live without for a while or you are going to end up going down a road you don't want when the first pretty thing makes some sort of advance. Please really be careful with this.

2. You have got to detatch from her. In a big way. Yes your list of how you would be different. Do it. Now is the only life you have. You are still so worried about how she will react, what she will think, will this drive her out. If you want to go to the wiskey fest, go. Who cares what she will think? If your actions are doing no damage financially, legally, morally, then do it. You have to live YOUR life and let her live hers. You are so worried about what she is still doing and she is not worried about you. Sorry to say that but she is going to do things without being concerned for your feelings right now. But at this point, I see no direct evidence of her behavior being all that damaging either except it is not "normal".

3. If you want to totally drive her away, the yes confront her like your co worker suggested. But I don't think you want that. So as frustrating as it is, I wouldn't do it. Not saying you can't get assertive in your life but that would not be the way to do it.

4. Dreaming about your ex. Sounds like unresolves stuff. If you compare the two situations, not people, are there similarities in the situations or your reactions to them? How can YOU be different so that YOU know you have done everything possible and didn't simply give up?

The MLC possibility, as no one has addressed your concern from what I saw, have you read the resources? I have wondered it from your postings but refuse to suggest anything. We all have to figure it out on our own. But IF this is MLC, you have to expect this to be a longer road, with a lot of odd behavior, a lot of unanswered stuff, and stop looking for the magic wand to make this all better. It is a long hard road. You may want to post over in the MLC forum to see what others think. Patience, in either situation is required if you are going to stick this out and honestly O, you have to really find that within yourself.

You are doing well. Stand strong...(as one of my favorite posters says)

[Energizer Bunny]

I have no question that they (a lot of our wives) want the attention from men. I think it makes them feel good. They feel like crap in general right now. They know that they are tearing apart their families, treating their husbands like crap, feel trapped in marriages they wish they could leave, are holding onto tons of resentment and piles of guilt and selfishness. That's why they feel justified in doing things that make them feel good.

I just don't think that means there is an OM. Doesn't mean there isn't...or won't ever be. I just think there are other possibilities.

[Orich]

Thank you so much for taking the time to catch up with me, cat. I have read your post, and this is what immediately hits me:

1. As far as the sexual frustration, yes it sucks and is difficult. However, I don't show any signs of it to W, don't want to put any pressure on her. I vent here, and get the frustration out at the gym. As a practicing Roman Catholic in full communion with Rome, I do believe it to be a mortal sin to bed someone other than my wife, so though I may talk about it here, it is not an option for me as I am trying to protect my immortal soul. I have discussed this issue with a priest, and have some new spiritual tools to help handle this.

2. You are right about detaching. I am finding this very hard to do. Every positive vibe I get from W I amplify and focus on. I am trying to stop doing that, as well as physically removing myself from her when possible. Again, difficult with my two young sons, but I try now to just take them out and do stuff with them. I am having a herd time doing things without her as we used to be inseperable, but with more effort, I should be able to do this.

3. I don't plan on confronting her like my co-worker suggested. I was in a pissed off mood when I talked to him, and it was a fantasy to think to do that. I posted it to help get that frustrated feeling out.

4. There is a little bit of unresolved stuff between ex and I. She actually DID cheat on me, and in fact flaunted it in front of me. If you think the way I am handling this sitch with my current W, you should have seen me then. Or maybe you shouldn't have. I was a basket case. That's another reason why I spend so much time here, avoiding mistakes I made then. Besides, I love my W 100 times more than I ever loved my ex. That is a fact.

If she is in a MLC, then from what I read it will be a long road like you said, and I don't think she is getting the proper help from her IC, so it could be even longer. But as long as I know there is hope, I will continue to stand strong. When I feel that there is no hope left, then I will call it quits and move on.
This isn't a fatalistic statement, and I only put it here to illustrate a point. Life here on Earth is flawed and difficult. The next life is perfect and a paradise. I will suffer through what I have to here in order to get there. HOWEVER, this does not mean completely giving up on life and just waiting. We are to begin to make the Kingdom of God here on Earth. God doesn't want us to be unhappy, but he does want us to trust him. I am getting closer and closer to fully understanding this and completely giving myself to him.

Thanks again for your concern and insight. You remind me that I have much thinking and work to do.

GMA: I understand what you are saying. I am sure they make her feel good about herself. However, knowing the person she is and the faith she has, I have a hard time thinking she would actually act on any physical urges with another man, especially a kid.

[cat04]

o-

Glad you are talking to the priest. I just don't want to see you doing anything I know you would regret, especially as I know you are a man of faith. But that being said, we all need to remember that we are human and when we are weak, the enemy will tempt us to no end. So just keep using those spiritual tools. They are very important.

I remember you saying unresolved stuff from first M and the dreams tell me you are looking for some sort of resolution.

I am glad you use this place to vent. Do you ever go back and read what you wrote? Sometimes it takes that to really help us see our own stuff. As if you were reading someone else's words. It also helps us to see how far we have come in our journey and what we may still need to work on.

You have learned so much about yourself already and that will continue. One thing that is said by a lot of people about MLC, is that the sooner the LBS learns what they need to, the sooner the MLC wakes up (if they are going to). As you know, there are no guarantees, and that is why the detatching is really important. Right now, your wife is stuck, not sure what is going to make her happy, trying this, trying that, not really finding anything that works for the long term. Without the detatching, you will get stuck in that cycle and you will start doing the same thing.

For me, detatch and drop the rope are hard concepts because they sort of feel like giving up. But it doesn't have to be giving up if that isn't what you want. It is simply allowing each of you the freedom to be who you are. Maybe that will result in your being together, maybe it won't. But it allows for independence and interdepdence instead of co-dependence if that makes sense.

[Orich]

It does make sense, cat. I don't want to give up, and it does feel like that is exactly what I am doing when I get close to detaching. Like after her letter, I dropped the rope and it really felt like that was it, we were done. Maybe that was in part why she sent the text of regret. I will have to drop the rope again and not pick it up right away.
I am glad you brought up the enemy. Many may not realize what he is capable of. I am. I have actually had dealings with him while in the seminary during my formation for ordination. I know what he is capable of. I read once that his greatest trick was convincing us he doesn't exist. I pray the prayer to St. Michael every day because of this. (Also because he is the patron saint of police officers)

I have learned a lot about myself, and have more to learn, but I am a better person since this began (even W thinks so) and will continue to improve.

[cat04]

Yes, if we don't believe the enemy exists, we are much more easily swayed to fall into the trap. And sometimes, we just become confused and don't see the trap until it is too late. That is what he counts on.

I know if feels like giving up and that may be what caused her to rethink a little. But it is necessary. It may be the most necessary step in the whole process.

[Orich]

True, and true.

[25yearsmlc]

Orich,

Have you guys decided to go to Retrovaille? I skipped 10 pages of the thread to catch up...sorry if I missed a crucial piece.

OM? Maybe, maybe not. MLC? Um, YES...confusion on her end? Definitely. Frankly, I think you need to focus on the Retrovaille if it's going to happen, but without talking about it beforehand. It'll make too much pressure on both of you.

My h and I DID attend it last weekend, which happened to be our anniversary, (what are the odds?) and we "got it".

We found it surprisingly helpful AND you should know that the couples who host it, have stories that will inspire you b/c they've seen some serious trouble in their m's, and I mean it when I say that nothing you've written or I've experienced, matches their issues. Yet they made it. That matters. They didn't just "survive"; they are happy.

Also, there was some discussion about how little the "outside world" does to support marriage. You referred to "the enemy" and boy I hear you. And just Look at television and how few intact families exist there or in Hollywood, let alone show romance or respect between the spouses. I heard a comedian say she'd been married 20 years and there was hesitation in the audience about whether to clap or boo or what? They waited for her to mock the marriage of course, which she did do. THEN THEY LAUGHED AND LAUGHED....see? And that's not even "evil" per se. She only said a line or two thank God, but It is just that we don't get a lot of support for sticking it out and making it happy.

I also don't think "settling for a troubled m" is great either. It means resistance to change or a lack of forgiveness....

All I can say is if you get to Retrovaille, you'll be pleased. NO ONE is turned away for money reasons and I saw someone here post about how expensive it is and that made me mad. Not true. Yes They DO ask for an anonymous donation at the end b/c it's ALL volunteers doing this and our housing and meals were provided somehow, so yeah, they could use some money donated and heck yes we did! AND no, you don't have to be Catholic and there are inter-denominational groups that do Retrovaille or some form of it.

I would not recommend it for an atheist, although I didn't feel that I was hit over the head too hard with religiousness. I'm Catholic but my h isn't, and he was very comfortable. We found it a moving experience. And it's not over. We are attending the follow ups, but that's all I can say.

Except that even if you do divorce, retrovaille would make it less hostile and if you have to say that to get her there....I'd say it. Maybe that's just me...

But i saw some miracles happen there. Why not you?

Blessings your way...
j-

[Orich]

Hi 25,
We are in fact going to Retrouvaille the weekend of September 11. I asked her to go some time ago, and she refused. then she sent me a letter basically saying she is done, nothing is going to work, she is contacting a lawyer and moving on. A few days of Hail Mary's on my part later, and she texts me with a message saying she regrets the letter. I asked 1 more time to go to Retro, and she agrees saying she wont change her mind. So far she hasn't. It has been rough since she agreed to go, ups and downs. Very low ups and deep downs, but no one is filing. The Retro couple explained about money, so we are covered there.
I am so happy to hear another positive experience about Retro. Firstly, happy that another couple has been helped, but also because I am putting a lot of hope into this weekend, it may very well be our last chance.

[25yearsmlc]

Though there was not a lot of public sharing, I know at least 2 couples included had a spouse with their bags packed to leave the M, literally....for sure 1 of them changed her mind and the other said, "There is hope"...

Can't ask for more from one weekend but you will have to do the follow up. Say NOTHING of that now....just get her there. And relax. Trust the process.
j-