desperate...

[1853dave]

Hi Moto,

I still can't get over the RO thing....that you guys can call each other, text each other, see each other.... In my case, it was strictly NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER. Period. If I saw her drive by in traffic, and I were to wave, then she could have pressed the issue that I was communicating to her, and I could have been arrested for a RO violation. Seem far fetched??? Maybe, but this stuff happens, as innocent as it is.

So, you need to hang in there, and use your contact time effectively. She sent you a smiley face??? Holy cow, that's playful and somewhat personal. If she was totally avoiding you, she would be much shorter and strictly to the point.

Keep giving her space, do NOT hound her in any way, and don't panic! I know things aren't great right now, but there are still a few signs that seem to maybe indicate that she's not 100% sure she wants you totally out.

How did I deal with the RO? My RO was a lot more stringient than yours, it seems, and I had no contact at all with W. None. So, all I could do was to take it one day at a time. I hate that term, but that's all I could do. Just get through the day, and then then next...and eventually some time has elapsed, and you can look back and see how things are probably a little bit better than they were before...

Now, pay attention to this part - because we are ALL guilty of this: STOP worrying about what she's thinking. STOP trying to figure her our. I think there's very little to gain by this, and chances are you will just end up being reactive to her actions and words. Talk is very cheap - of couse everything is YOUR fault. We ALL know everything is YOUR fault. Guess what? Everything was also MY fault, and Puppy's fault, and fill-in-the-blank's fault. As Puppy Dog says, it is all script. It took me a while to learn this. This is a very common pattern, and it is uncanny how you can read Michelle's books and read almost verbatim what your W is going to say! It is almost as thought there's a WAW class they all take, because the patterns are almost predictable. I have read a lot on the forum that tell us that the WAW or spouse is also very confused and scared, and that her brain is awash with chemicals....

So, it is up to YOU to try to become a better person. My W said I was often in a bad mood. I don't think I was, but that doesn't matter - it was her perception, her reality. So, I changed my mood. I learned to be happier with things, with myself. I learned to be more lenient and patient. Life then got a little easier for me - which in turn made me happier still... Even if I didn't feel like being chipper, I'd act "as if..." - and that really seemed to work for us. She also said I was controlling. Again, I didn't think I was at all, but her personality is to be very passive...so over time, I tried to position myself so that she could feel that she had some say in things - and I'd also ask her advice on things, and sometimes seek her support - all 180's for me. I think you can do some of this when you pick up or dropp off your D, as there will be scheduling issues, etc., which will need to be agreed upon.

I was also cheerleading, and complimenting her to help built her self esteem. Nothing insincere, but I was keeping my eyes open for opportunities.

There are no tricks, but there are behaviors which you can identify which will benefit your relationship, and which will hurt your chances. Listen to her, and identify what it is (as subtle as they may be) that you need to change in yourself, because you can only change yourself. Hopefully she will respond in kind and unconsciously (or consciously) make some changes herself.

I am no expert with this, but I have been doing this for a while, and I have made some mistakes, but I am finally seeing some softening in my W. My DB counselor asked me today what I thought I would attribute my success to... I told her that I was not pressuring her, I did not corner her, I kept the conversation friendly and I acted always in a friendly, good mood. I would at times offer help, and let her decide whether to accept or not (letting HER choose) and I also found that if I gave in a little, that she'd also give a little. All of this, and giving her space.

OK, I wrote a lot, but the bottom line is 'actions speak louder than words' - and this applies to both you and your W. Stop trying to figure her out, because you won't (I know, easy to say, hard to follow), don't panic, try to do something - whatever it is - to make yourself just a little bit happier each day - visit with friends, go see that movie you've been putting off, go to the gym and start working on yourself, go out and do something for yourself... some "me" time.

Take care of yourself... Hang in there, and don't panic. We've all rowed this boat before.

[motoB]

Dave,
that may be one of the best(at least in my opinion)posts Ive ever seen. After reading all of your sitch, you in particular have been an inspiration for me most, because of the similarity's in our worlds. I pray for you often, and hope your changes in your R only get better, and stronger. I hope to get where you are with your strength, and patience... cause Ive always wore my emotions on my sleeve. I Thought through my life it was a good thing, cause what you see is what you get... but in this case it only tends to make me needy, impulsive, insecure, and controlling. Not something I'm proud of, but I will say that most of my control, was never really control, more of a bid for it. My W has always been the boss so to speak, she made the rules, and that's that. So when I tried to put down some rules toward the end of the R, well it was perceived as something more. Just so you know, my rules weren't really rules just more of pleas like "if your working late call me" "stop lying" stuff like that, sounds kinda pitiful I know. I do acknowledge trying to look at her phone and computer, but that's because she went so far out of her way to hide them from me. She said last Saturday that she was always checking out my phone, didn't bother me I had nothing to hide. Nearly all of her actions made me more insecure and so on, and so on... no excuse, just wish I knew then what I know now.

As far as the differences in our RO... the truth is there is no difference, except that I'm not restrained from my D. I know this is the part where everyone tells me how stupid I am for having any contact with my W, but she tells me that as long as I don't do something "stupid" and respect her(no R talks only stuff about D) then there's nothing to worry about. Truth is we have HAD plenty R talks(I'm hoping to be strong enough to put the kibosh on that) yet she still talks to me. On the flip side she will take the phone from the D and talk to me but she will not call me, or accept any of my call. She does text me back if I talk to her about something important, like my Doctor appt, or like today a little boy was picking on my D at camp cause she couldn't see me. I texted the W and asked her if she wanted to take care of this, or if she wanted me to.... we worked it out and again she isn't overly warm, but the isn't cold either. There are thank you's and your welcomes, followed by a smiley face. In the beginning there would have been no reply. Is this a baby step?

I guess I'm afraid I might be looking for good where there may be none. Tomorrow I get my D, and Ill be strong. The game plan goes as follows
1. Looking good, smelling good
2. Up beat and happy
3. Tell a quick joke about accountants(that's what she is)
4. Then depart with a passing compliment, as I'm walking away

Any inputs anyone? Any suggestions on a good one liner joke, or appropriate compliment?

Last but not least, one thing I wish I could address with the W is our D. Shes 10, and is becoming more and more sad, I talk to her on her cell phone probably 10 times a day, including saying her goodnight prayers every night. She says that her and mommy don't do anything fun anymore. She told me that Mommy picks her up from the b-sitter, cooks, then either gets on computer or is on the phone till, D goes to sleep, then stays on longer. My D is becoming very lonely. She has lost not just her Daddy, but also her older brother. This is a touchy subject, cause of the fragility of our R. What should I do?

Thanks as always and sling some prayers my direction, I always get real stressed just before seeing my W on Saturdays. Have a good weekend everyone

[motoB]

Yesterday wasn't to bad, I guess. The pickup went about as planned, and the drop off wasn't to bad either. Not as short as Id like, about 30 minutes or so. My D is starting to really feel the effects of this. She is becoming more and more emotional, and this isn't really like her. She cried numerous times through her and my visitation. Then she cried in my arms for nearly 15 minutes as they were going to leave. She told me she has to take pepto every night now cause her tummy always hurts. She didn't even want to play mini golf yesterday, said her tummy just didn't feel good enough, and she'd rather just sit close to me. Her and I are so close...This is killing me!

The only thing I really picked up on during my and the W's conversation, is that shes either: A. All of a sudden shes really detached from me.
B. Shes really trying to convince me that she is.
C. Or she's really trying to convince herself...
She brought me some clothes... just random stuff, nothing Ive asked for, and my mail. She was friendly, but made comments like whats happened in the past is over and and I'm ok with it, to be honest she was kinda laying it down thick. So much in fact I didn't really feel too threatened by it. Now I'm not saying she's not detached, maybe since last weekend she found her own magic pill to end it all, but somehow I doubt it. Unless Ive been fooled this whole time and now I'm seeing the true side? I still doubt it. One other thing, I asked her where she had planned on taking our D to when they left there(because the W had already told us she had a surprise for the D) and she told me it was some little place where you could go and listen to live country music, and I thought that was cool and asked here where, and she told me it was none of my business... and smiled cocky like at me. This kinda pissed me off, but I didn't break, I stayed very calm(180 for me before I would've jumped on that) I just told her I wasn't trying to get in her business, and that I'm sorry she felt that way. Then I asked her why she thought I was being nosy, if the W's friends or mom had asked would they had been nosy too? She seemed to enjoy not telling me... I remember thinking to myself, oh yeah how 3rd grade is this crap? But I stayed cool, and changed the subject. What was that? A test? Just a power trip?

I think her detached "act" stems more from the fact that she had some text messaging with me earlier in the day telling me she was gonna pick up our D where I was staying, and take her to a surprise place(The country music place). Well I told her that was breaking the RO rules(because we are to drop off and pick up in a designated place... shes been saying we cant ever break the RO rules, although we communicate which is breaking them...so whatever) Anyway, once I told her that, she said she would cancel their plans. Honestly that hurt my feelings for my D because she already told me that all her mommy does is work on the computer, and never does anything with her... So I tried to convince the W to go ahead and come get get and they could enjoy each other. I was very tactful and everything, but I guess I should have left it alone. I think I bothered her enough to build up defense for our drop off. By the way, I know she knew it was breaking the rules, she wouldn't let me change the place of pick up/drop off before, I believe she was hoping I wouldn't say anything, and when I did, she didn't want to "owe" me any favors for breaking the rules herself... just my opinion, but I'm sure it carries some weight.

When I saw her I think the positives were this, she did ask me to fix the radio in her car... I did
She smelled real good, the D and I both commented on this, it was her shampoo, she actually handed me her ponytail to sniff it(I wanted to hold her so bad)
She also kept texting with me through the long conversation of me trying to get her to come get the D and have fun(although by the end I could tell she was pulling back)
and another thing that may be nothing... is that she took off her sun glasses, and let me see her eyes, she usually keeps them on and stares forward in the car... this time she looked at me, like a normal person would.
I know when my D got upset and started crying, W got into the focus forward mode again. I know it was hard on the W to see our D like this, because this was only the 2nd time she had broke down in front of her mom... but no emotion from the W, I saw her change into that hard woman who feels no pain. At least that tells me she wasn't like that from the beginning of the visit. I cheered up the D, and sent them on their way, again with smiles and waves from the W as if we were great palls.
so that's my day...

[motoB]

I'm wondering now, after reading so many others posts for the past few hours... whats her hurry? She left when she filed, and the only time we spoke about why shes doing this, and not waiting a little bit, she said she had to get it in writing, and that no matter what shes going all the way with the D, but followed it up with a maybe we can get back together after its all over. I don't mean to sound like I'm quitting, cause I'm not, but I think only God could change her mind on the D... she told me yesterday that everything should be done by mid September. Has anyone dealt with this? Has anyone saved it in such a quick time with so little contact? Either way I'm not giving up on her, I just wish we didn't have to go there. It kills me cause shes petitioned to change back to her maiden name... when does it get easier?

[1853dave]

Hi Moto,

Sorry to hear how hard it is on your D... I know it hurts you. Your W probably feels guilty for initiating this and seeing her behavior... I know it doesn't make it any easier for you.

I'd be careful about the RO... I suppose she could somehow use it against you, but you might have just as much dirt on her. By now you two have established a pattern of sorts.

She still sounds somewhat ambivalent at times. This is a rough time to DB...so for now try to "do no harm" and good job on cheering up your D.

This is a very tough time for you (and your D) - I know it made me angry thinking of what my W was putting the entire family through for what seemed to be her own selfish agenda.

For what it's worth, I too have seen that same hard woman, who was for a while signing her maiden name on legal paperwork...

I'm not out of the woods yet, but things have been going much better for me lately. It's taken some time, and hopefully your situation will turn around as well.

I find it odd that she says that maybe you can get back together when it's all over?!? What in the world...???

She sounds very confused and uncertain. I think you should drop Sandi_2 a note and see what she has to say about this.

Hang in there, and support your D. My oldest is 9, and I know they're old enough to know what's happening, and she's scared. You need to let her know that no matter how this all turns out, that you'll always be there for her. Always.

Take care MotoB... This is a tough time, hopefully things get better for you very soon. Hang in there, for you and your D. And for your W...

[bluerain]

Im sorry MotoB. I havent check in on you for a while.

Im disappointed to hear how your D is having such a hard time. Is there anything you can do to help her out? Sandi might be a good resource for you. She has a different perspective than a lot of the people that are on here.

Keep making positive changes for yourself. The military has lots of resources for you, dont be ashamed to seek them out. I know that a lot of people are worried about the stigma that goes with it, but maybe you could look for a support group through a church?

[MaryEL]

motoB.. well I decided to read your sit and that work can wait. You definately have some good advise and great support from the DBers on here! I thank you for suggesting I read .. I am so sorry that things are going so poorly.

I actually think that I am lucky that I dont have the daily/weekly interactions like you do. I am able to take the away time and deal. You have even more ups and downs with the actions and reactions you get from your WAW every tim you interact. Trying to interpret must horrible..

That being said.. maybe you could let the interactions go for some time. dont return the texts.. dont keep her posted on your medical condition.. have your mom or dad do the transfer of D...

Yes I got that from reading this board.. when I first started reading your post I was jealous that you got to have the interactions.. but the more I read, I am starting to understand what DBing is all about, the more I see that it really is a necessessity to leave them be.. give them their space and GAL..
I will keep an eye on how things are going and will pray for your strength thru this.. but keep in mind things fall into place the way they are suppose to but how we deal with them is our decision...

[motoB]

Today has been a long and trying day. Nothing more than me mentally beating myself up. I have so many questions I want to ask my W. I know I cant ask the questions but man I want so badly to hit her up and just ask her to be straight with me and tell me why? I think at this point the questions are killing me the most. I wish I could just shut them off.

I asked in a previous post if anyone knew of someones spouse finding this board and reading their respective spouses posts? I wonder?

[karen43]

I asked in a previous post if anyone knew of someones spouse finding this board and reading their respective spouses posts? I wonder?

I had that, and it gets easier as time goes on. One thing I found out, is I was asking him ?s, and then he would try to answer me. I really think he was trying but he didn't know the answers himself. He would tell me one thing, and it would be completely opposite what he told me a month or 2 before. Just really really confused. And stuff like his wanting the D had nothing to do with his girlfriend he'd been dating for a couple months (and probably an EA before that). They don't know the answers themselves.

I've been here over a year now, and I've seen a few people tell their WAS about the site. I think that's the opposite of what's recommended here; this is supposed to be a place of support for you. I've seen I think about 2 people have their WAS find out about the site, maybe they left their browser open to this page or something? The moderators here deleted their threads/posts.

I know my H did a search on me to find out what sites I'm registered with (they emailed me about that) and then I did my own search and this site didn't pop up although some like classmates and stuff did. I don't think it would make a difference if my WAS did find out. I wouldn't tell him, but maybe he'd learn something from the site? Karen

[Coach]

I asked in a previous post if anyone knew of someones spouse finding this board and reading their respective spouses posts? I wonder?

It happened to me. It was very hard on my wife at first. It eventually turned into a positive but it took a lot of work to get there.