He will know if the feelings are becoming overwhelming and that right there means the meds may be working overtime to try to keep all the chemicals balanced in his mind.
Thanks for the insight, I will ask him (his Doc back from vacation on the 14th... She's fantastic, but "home" is half way around the world, so when she's on vacation it can be a long haul).
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Thank you for your thoughts. It helps to at least know that you attempt to discuss these things with him privately. It is more difficult for me to do that with him right now. Most of the time he just has sarcastic come-backs or biting comments. I do believe he listens sometimes, and it's clear he's conflicted about all of this...doesn't want me around him, but ultimately wanted me to join you all yesterday (even though he'd never say it directly, said it by insulting me). I think we should try to discuss consequences and discipline and come up with a strategy that is consistent...not only with S14, but with all three. I know yesterday I think I heard you stampeding into the bedroom when S9 called you a son-of-a-bit$h, and I'm not sure what transpired, but S14 seems to use that language with me routinely, again without consequence. Perhaps we could have some early morning meetings about this stuff (quietly) so we don't wake up the kids (S14 blamed me, the bit$h, for waking him this morning). Evenings are just too challenging and we're all exhausted and not as patient or thoughtful. W
My response:
Quote:
Yes, his sarcastic comments and biting (but not so witty) comebacks are hard to take. I try to listen “through” them to see what he’s really saying; I find when I don’t focus on the vitriol, I get a better sense of what he’s actually thinking… even if it doesn’t always make sense... it gives me more of an idea as to where he’s coming from than if I just scold him for the “packaging”.
If it makes you feel any better, he said to me this morning “I can’t believe you fu$kers woke me up like that”. So, he is not blaming you alone. He just needs his beauty rest. And, yes, I told him to “can it”.
BTW, different approach with different children (and one person alone does not a stampede make, but I digress). I find that with S9(because he IS empathetic) you can nip it in the bud. Nothing transpired other than telling him to “knock it off”. He usually does.
Has S9 sworn at you in my presence without reprimand by me? I feel that I get most of S9’s wrath; and D11, sadly to me, internalizes all of what she is feeling to the point of getting goofy.
Tomorrow morning? Wednesday morning? You pick the time and a quiet place… If we could get them all to sleep in their own rooms or upstairs, the basement should be somewhat of a “safe house” or even the backyard if it isn’t too hot…
So, he said, given that his 2nd LL is words of affirmation, can anyone tell me if I'm handling the right way? Room for improvement for subsequent exchanges?
In the meanwhile, when we sit down to discuss consequences for S14, I'm thankful for the input from @Serenity and @SD...
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Sorry Alex but your 14 year old sounds just like my 13 - soon to be 14 year old...
He curses like there is no tomorrow and just recently started doing it...
He to has called his Dad and I fu$kers upon being woke up...
For the first couple of times he did actually speak to his Dad (after he walked out) he always addressed him as Hey A$$hole...
Of course I don't agree with that in the least bit because it is so disrespectful I will tell you though the first time he said it I was envious - He took the words I wanted to say (but never would) and just put them out there without a care in the world.
Now we are working on using better language skills instead of cursing
I love the fact that you are both going into this like adults...It will help him in the long run and I think you will do very good...Just remember this is about him/the other children not you and your wife...Keep on the topic at hand not your M and you will do excellent
May All Who Seek To Take My Life Be Put To Shame And Confusion; May All Who Desire My Ruin Be Turned Back In Disgrace. ~Psalm 40:14~
Your wife brings up some very good points, especially about you being beaten black and blue and bloody by your son.
To me, your son's actions are dangerous. Out of control behavior is a sign that the medication is not working. This is a see the doctor ASAP moment. Before he can learn how to effectively manage his anger with the fantastic Triple R's he needs to be in a place where he is calm enough to focus. To be in a good place to make good decisions.
Crucial elements also include getting enough sleep. A rested mind along with the understanding that the medicine is not the complete answer. It stabilizes the brain chemistry, but he has to be actively be part of the solution. Not taking an active effort on his part is like canoeing without an oar. You get down the the river but it's out of your control.
His behavior has escalated beyond your control. Does he see a psychiatrist for his medication levels? The good ones know how different drugs interact and what might be most effective for your son. And many times it's trial and error until the right mix is found.
On another point, your younger son of tender years watches and learns. Those little eyes watch to see if you will protect him (9 years old), keep him in a safe place along with what is and isn't appropriate behavior.
This is beyond the divorce, whether or not parents support one another. It's a kid who's brain is whirling beyond control. Who knows, he may be sacrificing himself emotionally. As long as he acts out aggressively you and your wife have to act as a team.
Finding the right combination of medications, counseling (for him and you and your wife together or individually), enough rest, learning the appropriate coping skills will all help him move forward in a positive manner.
I am not qualified to give advice here. We failed individually and together to get S25 in line between the ages of 15-21. And it nearly destroyed our marriage. What worked? Once when he threw something at his little brother I called the police. They came and told me that if they took him in I was only making trouble for myself. They advised finding an uncle or someone else to beat my son up, since my husband was very passive (which caused me to think the way your wife is thinking.) On the other hand, my son didn't like having the police called, so he never did anything violent to younger brother again.
I've told you before, what ended the behavior was the police arresting my son for behavior outside the home, and a court system that showed him who really is boss in this society -- the judge. My son grew up and grew out of it. I have come to realize that my son's bad behavior was not my husband's fault, and he tried in his gentlemanly way to get acquiescence on the behavior issues. And my angry, screaming, throwing the occasional plate method didn't work either. But through it all, my son knew that we cared.
I now believe that everything we tried was useless, but in the end productive, in changing the course of my son's life. Because in jail, everyone he met told him he didn't belong there. Everyone from the jailers to the inmates knew that he had an education, a good home and the finer things in life. And they convinced him that his life needed to go on a different path.
He's a fine, upstanding person today at 25, even a hard worker. I never thought I'd see the day. It takes a lot of time. My concern is, if your wife has no control of your son, how is she going to deal with him 50% of the time when she is alone with him? My son is probably single-handedly responsible for my husband and myself staying together. We couldn't handle him together. But I knew alone, I didn't stand a chance.
My son is probably single-handedly responsible for my husband and myself staying together. We couldn't handle him together. But I knew alone, I didn't stand a chance.
Interesting point. Alex,do you think your son is trying to be the lightning rod to galvanise you and your wife together?
Going back to your wifes first e-mail about dealing with your son as a united front. When we were seperated we had kid blow-ups and I made sure I was along side of the Greek as parents. It makes sense for lots of reasons - partnership, communication, problem-solving and reinforces your history in a positive way. This is a opportunity to lead. You can handle it.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Your wife brings up some very good points, especially about you being beaten black and blue and bloody by your son.
To me, your son's actions are dangerous. Out of control behavior is a sign that the medication is not working. This is a see the doctor ASAP moment. Before he can learn how to effectively manage his anger with the fantastic Triple R's he needs to be in a place where he is calm enough to focus. To be in a good place to make good decisions.
Crucial elements also include getting enough sleep. A rested mind along with the understanding that the medicine is not the complete answer. It stabilizes the brain chemistry, but he has to be actively be part of the solution. Not taking an active effort on his part is like canoeing without an oar. You get down the the river but it's out of your control.
His behavior has escalated beyond your control. Does he see a psychiatrist for his medication levels? The good ones know how different drugs interact and what might be most effective for your son. And many times it's trial and error until the right mix is found.
On another point, your younger son of tender years watches and learns. Those little eyes watch to see if you will protect him (9 years old), keep him in a safe place along with what is and isn't appropriate behavior.
This is beyond the divorce, whether or not parents support one another. It's a kid who's brain is whirling beyond control. Who knows, he may be sacrificing himself emotionally. As long as he acts out aggressively you and your wife have to act as a team.
Finding the right combination of medications, counseling (for him and you and your wife together or individually), enough rest, learning the appropriate coping skills will all help him move forward in a positive manner.
*hugs*
Gypsy,
Your points well-taken, but I should point out that the black & blue and blood is overstated. I had large bruise on my arm from restraining him and us tumbling against some furniture...
So, I want to be real careful here... Yes, he is out-of-kilter, but it isn't as crazy as these few posts would make it sound. The behavior I write about is not the "norm", so there is some "sampling bias" here, too. When my parents were here they saw one of his episodes and were scared out of their minds. Since they see him so infrequently, it takes on a disproportionate weight with them and they see it as a more likely and frequent event than it is. From our perspective, it happens once in a very blue moon. It isn't the norm.
Again, I am not belittling, but I also don't want to blow it out of proportion. I do believe there is a component of overreaction on part of W, too, because she would LIKE to blame me... part of the WAS pattern and because it is so difficult for her to hear her son saying she isn't his mother any more (and that statement couldn't possibly be coming from him)...
Agree re: sleep...
His Dr. is among the best... She just happens to be out of the country... And, he was at a perfect mix (between diet, meds, etc.) before all of this... He was a straight A student (and I am not one to care about results, just effort which ALL came from him) and two-time student of the month in a very competitive school. He has very high IQ that his Doc. says lets him compensate for the B-P.
It's odd, there are moments where he suggests very strongly that a lot of his behavior is by design... I tell him it's not a good strategy... It's always been difficult to discern between what is the B-P and what is controllable by him...
That all being said, I do agree completely that coping skills will become more and more important to him as he progresses through HS and that now is the time to get the behavior in check whether or not he can or cannot control it on his own.
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
My son is probably single-handedly responsible for my husband and myself staying together. We couldn't handle him together. But I knew alone, I didn't stand a chance.
Interesting point. Alex,do you think your son is trying to be the lightning rod to galvanise you and your wife together?
Going back to your wifes first e-mail about dealing with your son as a united front. When we were seperated we had kid blow-ups and I made sure I was along side of the Greek as parents. It makes sense for lots of reasons - partnership, communication, problem-solving and reinforces your history in a positive way. This is a opportunity to lead. You can handle it.
Cheers
Coach,
Based upon what I just wrote to Gypsy, I do believe a portion of this is intentional on his part. I just don't know how much.
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Hi Alex, It seems like your exchanges with your W regarding your son have been working well - and keeping the focus on your son. Email exchanges always worry me - though it's my preferred mode of communication with my STBX - because one never knows what could end up being taken out of context.
Forgive me if you've already mentioned it before, but has your W ever been diagnosed with any issues similar to your S14s? I ask because they seem to have a lot in common in terms of their emotional responses to things - and I wonder if that might figure into her POV being so very different from yours at times...That said, I'm not trying to suggest analyzing your W, etc, just curious about her background in terms of how it might influence her responses to your S14's behavior.
Also...as an aside...when I first read the email you posted, my thought instinct was to look for instances of projection - and also to think that disagreement makes someone feel ignored - but when I read your responses, I was very impressed with how much you acknowledged her point of view while still expressing your own.
