In Limbo

[d1adsl5a]

Thanks. I do agree with you. I do agree there were many times where I could have been a better husband. I hear that saying alot, you can be right or have a relationship.

The fact is I know she has told her sister that she has seen changes in me and that I am trying hard. I do agree, it used to be I was a take charge guy that became controlling. I have acknowledged and have changed which she has agreed that I am different.

Then she will start in with I can forgive you, but I can't forget. It was a bad day. We took my 11 year old to see a therapist today. He is very self concious about himself and it has been getting worse over the last three months. The therapist even said part of his issues are because of our situation. I truly thought that if this didn't get her to rethink her position on things, nothing will. She wept in the therapists office, as soon as we get out, I get, "you are not putting this guilt trip on me. I said life is about choices, choosing to be happy, choosing to work on a marriage and our situation is just sad..." Somedays she seems is that she has left the marriage in her head. Not sure her therapist is helping all that much either at this point. She also told her sister that we tried to work on things and it just doesn't appear that it will work. She hasn't wanted to work on things since day one.

I will keep up the fight for another day and another day...

Thanks.

I still that she is still in the heart of her MLC. What mother would not say either we have to try or lets call it because limbo land is not a healthy for our kids. I also told her to stop saying I am doing what is best for the kids and myself. I said make no mistake, this path you are on isn't best for the kids, it is best for you. Her response is if I am happy, the kids will be.

The therapist kept us after today and asked my wife if she plans on going back to marriage counseling. There was a 3 second pause and then a "hopefully"

I had a letter typed out again ready to launch it, however, I deleted it. Trying to win the war not all the little battles.

I do like the hope in your voice and I am trying to be as introspective as I can to make sure I am doing all I can to make me better. Her words of "I still need to fix/work on myself before I think of talking about our marriage" is definitely growing old fast after 3 months. Haven't seen one change in her since she dropped the bomb 3 months ago. But I guess I don't have a choice if I want this to work out. I will be remaining in Limbo Land for the time being.

I will listen, really listen to what she is saying.

[Stronger]

Before a marriage can get to this point, there's issues on both sides. You work on yours and you and she'll have to figure her crap out for herself.
Remember this, it was very hard for me to do it, but I think I'm getting the hang of it now: YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOU. Nothing else. So do it. Control you.

Be the man millions of women want to be with. Be the husband every woman says "Man, I need me some of that." Be the greener grass, as I've been told. You can do it. You can turn this around, but it's going to be up to her to figure it out.

All this GALing....it's the best thing that's happened to me in a long time. All of this sucks, believe me, but what I've done for me, yoga, tennis, reconnection with my ladies....all great and I love it. I got so wrapped up in my S that I forgot me. And I forgot to really look at H. That's a legitimate complaint of his. Hurts to know I did this, but I did. I own it now.

Here's something else, maybe at the right time you can even say it. I think it's sexy.....the best thing a man can do for his children....is love their mother.

Maybe in the midst of a fight, she says "Why are you still trying????? I just want out!" Look her dead in her eye, straight face you say "The best thing a man cad do for his children is love their mother.....I think you, me and the kids....we're all worth the fight. I might lose, but I'm going to go out swinging....like a man."

Damn....I think that would be HOT!!!

[d1adsl5a]

I wish I would have read this last night. It was not a good night or morning for me. She went out last night and I couldn't care less. She comes home and I was happy and we started a friedly talk. Then she says in December, I want to go to vegas with my friends. I said sure. She then asks to borrow money from me. That is just another dig at me. I had to say again to her that it is our money, you aren't borrowing anything. She said that because of my "contolling" behaivor for 18 years, she still can't get past it being my money. The only thing I ever did was complain every other month about our $4,000 visa bill.

Then the fireworks started again. I should have walked away, but I just couldn't.

-I said we can't just stay in limbo forever. Eventually, one of us has to make a decision. I said that you weren't telling the truth when we were with my oldest son's therapist this week about hopefully seeking marriage counseling after she works on herself. She admitted then she stills want a divorce, she still can't get past everything. Which she proceeded to name off one by one. I took the bait and defended myself one by one. I did finally say some things that needed to be said. That she really didn't communicate well to me what she was feeling in our marriage. That the reasons her friends and sister would come to me about issues with her is out of fear of her temper. In fact, I feared your temper over the years. That is why in most of our arguments, I just said OK, you are right and walked away.

I said I have been doing all the work on myself since you dropped the bomb and I like who I am becoming. You have done nothing but go out, drink and get a tattoo.

-I said look me in the eye and tell me that you want a divorce. And she did. She said I want to wait until we can be friends after the divorce. I told her I would resent her to the day I die for not trying to work on our marriage. I cannot be friends with her if we get divorced. I also said how custody would work--me with 2 weeks, her with 2 weeks a month, which she said OK. Of course I find out this morning that my middle son heard everything because he wasn't sleeping. It ended with me telling her that our son's are going to have a tough life and you don't seem to care. You know that it would be different and better if you stayed, but you wont even give it a chance.

-This morning I had a talk with my son and told him mommy and daddy are trying really hard and that we love him. I asked my W if she had any regrets about what she said last night. She said No. Then she said I placed all the blame on her for our oldest son who is having weight issues and that is why he is in therapy. He has had them for awhile, but they gotten much worse in the last 2-3 months. Kind of ironic that is when she dropped the bomb. I said I wasn't blaming her for his issues, just that this is the tip of the iceberg and that it is only going to get worse and our other two sons will have problems as well and that this is just sad.

-I asked again why didn't want to give this a chance. She said you would never even let me like you again. You won't speak to me unless I speak first(a DB tactic). I replied that I don't know what you expect from me. Everytime we start to get along well, you throw another dagger at me. I am tired of getting hurt every day.

-Then she told me that she quit her therapist this week because she was pushing her toward divorce. I said that would have been something you should have told me....

Anyway, it has been an exhausting night and morning already. I will continue to work on me and hope she works on her.

I am still married, so there still is hope...

I will try to use that line...

Thanks..

[Stronger]

Here is some very very specific advice:
STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP....FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING HOLY ON EARTH STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No more R talks. NONE.
If you bring up the word divorce I'm going to hop a plane and beat you with something....figure it out when I get there.

You will NEVER argue her back into this marriage. You can only cause more and more damage. Yes, you are going to fight. But now is NOT the time.

You push her, every time she's going to say I want a D. The more she says it out loud, the more real it becomes. So STOP. You think you can threaten her and guilt her back? No way, she's going to get away from the source of guilt and that's you.

Dude...please please listen to me. This is NOT over. But you are going to make it so if you keep up with this. I know you are more pissed and hurt than you've ever been before. But you have to sit on that for a bit here. You have to work on getting the angry out and replacing it with something warm and fuzzy. YOU will benefit the most from doing that. You can't wake up every day and fight with someone. It's too much. You're going to give youself medical issues.

Whatever your wife is going through right now, you need to be compassionate.

Read this....another DBer who is saving his marriage sent it to me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html?_r=1

The next time she brings up the money ask her "What can WE do to make you feel more ownership of this? What can WE do so you understand that you've earned this money just as much as I have?" And when that conversation is going well, say to her "I want you to understand I complained about the $4,000 credit card bill because it surprised me. Not because you don't deserve it...but more because I'm nervous with the economy like it is, it just unnerves me a bit. Not being able to provide for you all would kill me more than anything. It's not that you don't deserve great things. I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from."

If you don't walk away from the fireworks, this is just going to be that much harder. Let her have her temper tantrums like you did when the kids were little. That's basically what she's doing. She's going to pick fights with you to make it easier to walk away....so she can tell everyone, all you do is fight.

And here's some good news....the opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. If she gets to be apathetic, that's when you REALLY need to worry.

But stop the fights. Replace it with something more normal, as close as you can get it right now.

[d1adsl5a]

OK, OK, OK. I get it. I swear I get it. When she gives the me the line, I take it every time. I keep thinking that this point will get through to her...Obviously, I am wrong every time. I promise to not do that anymore. I know guilt is not the way to go. Even if it worked it would be temporary. It is just that this is destroying my kids and that is the part that makes me angry. She keeps saying this is what is best for the kids. This isn't about the kids, it is about her.

We can have 3 good days in a row. I think that I can do this no matter the outcome, then wham she gives me a shot and I take the bait.

The only good thing that came out of this arguement is that she did cancel her therapist due to the fact she was getting pushed towards divorce. Just wish she would have told me that two days ago...

Thank you, Thank you for your direct advice.

[Stronger]

Limbo...you CAN save this marriage...but there are some things you need to accept RIGHT NOW so you can save your family and marriage.

First, you are in this alone. Yes, your kids are on your side, but she's not. She's on her own side and really she sounds pretty confused. (Another reason to stop R talks, don't let her say the D word.)
You are going to have to carry 99.9% of this relationship on your back....and it's going to hurt. But you CAN do it.

Second, she crazy. Not truly, as in she needs to be admitted to the looney bin, but she's still having a nutty.

Write down your 180's and stick to them. For example, she says "I want a divorce." Your normal reaction is to get into it with her, convinced this is the conversation where she's going to "get it". Not a chance brother. You are NOT going to talk her into stay. You can only "action" her into staying. So what you do is nothing. What you say to her is this "I understand that's what you are thinking right now. I believe you believe it. That makes me sad. But I can't talk about this right now. I'm just not there yet. Thanks for respecting that boundary for me." Smile, walk away.

OK, what are your other 180's? What are you doing to GAL?

[faithisbelieving]

Great article. She gave him 6 months. Most, IMO, who get to reconcile, usually have their S's return rather quickly (FaithfulH for one).

We need to try and save our marriages but NOT live in limbo and denial forever.

FIB

[Energizer Bunny]

D1 - It's SOOOOO hard not to take the bait. I've been going through this for over 9 months now and still find myself backsliding occasionally (this weekend as a matter of fact).

You have to be in it for the long haul. You will develop more patience. You will learn to detach more effectively. You will get stronger.

Time and patience. It's completely unnatural for a guy who wants to fight for and protect his family...but it's what we have to do.

Pray...lots. It helps.

[d1adsl5a]

9 months--wow. I am a little over three months now. The boundary that I have in my head is a year of the Limbo. The last couple days haven't been too bad. After this entire mess last week with her saying she wants the divorce, she then invites me to a fundraiser for our anniversary on Aug. 27. I didn't plan on even being around for our anniversary. So I waited a few seconds and light heartedly accepted the invite. She also said she quit her therapist because she was getting led down the divorce path. Sometimes I don't think she knows if she is coming or going.

I find when I act like nothing is wrong, she responds positively. Not sure if it is an act or not. But I am on a record 3 days "acting" happy in front of her.

After 9 months do you see any signs of things improving? Is there any light for you?

[Energizer Bunny]

In the 9 months we have had times that were good. Almost like old times. Then "The Bomb" again. I have had at least 5 "I'm done, I can't do this any more, I'm filing, etc" moments after things were going well.

One was just last night. I'm scared to go home and find out if it is real.

I have seen the light! Then it got dark.

I set a year as a "deadline" at one point. Now I just want my sife back. Even if it takes longer.