I have to agree with something Jack said too. It is the confusion that really seems to be the hallmark of all of this. If they knew what they really wanted, I think they would just simply act on it right away. Any thoughts?
MLC= Myself
MLC= Lying
MLC= Confusion
I think that covers most componants.....
Jack is a smart man.....and I can't believe I just said that....LOL ( you owe me a nickel for that Pirate )
Confusion is what sets this apart from everything else.
Since you asked, I'm doing. Not bad, not wonderful, just really busy. You know if it weren't for the confusion and the inability to make decisions, I would just think H was nuts. Definately had a whole bunch of paranoia for a long time. If I shared the things I was accused of... Is paranoia contageous? LOL. Realized the other day that part of why I sunk so low so quickly was that I was having paranoid accusations coming at me from both H and MIL (she was living with us at the time and is slightly bipolar, she says with a roll of the eyes)at the same time, and although I'm no angel, I never ever in a million years would have ever dreamed of doing the things I was being accused of and really couldn't believe that anyone who knew me at all would think those things. Two years later, I still find myself checking with a friend that I really trust to see if I am the horrible nutty one, or if they were.
So busy busy busy and that is how it goes around here.
FG, I understand what you are saying about how long to hang on. When it is time to not anymore, you will know. It is hard living with them and moving on with your own life. I am sort of facing one of those delimma's now. I want to buy something alive, and mentioned it yesterday. H went beserk no more animals. I WANTED to ask him, who are you to say yes or no. So I am torn. In the past, I would have said this is my H and I will respect no more animals. I have a bunch of animals already. But now, if he is just a roommate and this is in a cage and won't bother him, why shouldn't I do it? If he was not here I would do it in a heart beat. Actually the list of what I would have if he wasn't here includes at least 4 more animals. So.....
Last edited by cat04; 08/06/0904:24 PM.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Glad MIL isn`t living with you anymore Cat, though of course she `s living with you through your H of course.
As to being the horrible nutty one, all this does take our heads to a crazy place.(I really did feel sucidal more than once and was jumping all over the place with my moods when the marriage broke down) so really its a shared madness, IMHO.
That`s part of the journey-working on the madness within ourselves.
I`m wondering, in fact, if H`s MLC craziness in really just another way to recover, just as valid as our DB journey. He`s certainly GALing to his heart`s content-booking concert tickets, off to any match that takes his fancy, buying the clothes he always dreamed of having, keeping fit. He`s gone very dark-minimal contact with me or the kids,rarely initiates conversation, doesn`t say where he`s going,and I don`t even see or hear his cellphone these days.
Doesn`t seem at all happy though!
At least I can manage that last step! and, thankfully, I`m able to be here for the kids.
Spoke to you on TIF`s thread, Cat re setting boundaries. How have you been on that score with your H and his paranoia.; going beserk, controlling behaviour?
Have to say since I calmly spoke to my H last week re not accepting his rants, he`s been very subdued ever since!
Read your post on TIF's thread but decided to answer here. Boundaries with my H. Well, the animal thing for me is a mere annoyance in comparison. His answer was standard from twenty years about the comment I made about wanting one. Ok right now there are 4 plus the new one I want, but at one point we had 23 of varying kinds (I like all animals so..). They come to the door and never leave in most instances. So I can understand his need to not watch animal after animal move in but for me, well they are just a blessing. Sort of like kids. That is one thing I have to be grateful to H for regardless of anything else. If it were not for his desire to keep the numbers small, we would probably have 15 kids as well. LOL. So I will let that one go and get it when he becomes a little more receptive to the idea or moves out, whichever comes first. LOL.
The boundaries I have set here, and am still working on, have more to do with respect and my self worth. Interaction with H in the last year has gone from none post bomb, to spordic, talking when required, to me wanting some breathing room in the last few weeks. Not reconcilliation, but talking, spending time together (H initiated), and us actually learning things about each other after all of these years. And each one lately seems to be complete with some lesson for each of us, I don't really know if H is aware of it, but I am. When I say that, it is sort of like we are rewriting the rules of engagement. We each have patterns of speaking to each other that have created problems in the past because that tone sounds angry, that word means this to me, etc... We both have been making each other aware of those things all of a sudden and trying to be more considerate of how our simple words, tones, and assumptions make the other feel. For me, the biggest traps are falling into the feeling that anything that bothers him is my fault somehow and trying to fix and allowing him to punish me (or make me feel bad) for anything that is out of place, not exactly what I said it might be, or simply not what he thinks it should be. That usually leads to me getting upset because I know I wasn't bad or whatever, but I still feel bad, so I get upset, then the yelling would ensue. And my eventual apology for NOTHING. So I have stopped apologizing. I have gone within and figured out how not to feel "bad" for all of his aches and pains and for not being perfect. I have called him on his threats of moving out and D over the last year. Each time with a little more strength in myself (if that is what you want). When he tries to punish now (and I don't know about your H, but mine loves to wait for weeks to go by to tell you you did something wrong. I think sometimes it takes him that long to figure out how to tell me it bugged him and come up with reasons it was wrong). He actually tried this last week. I told him basically, what you chose to take from my words was that attitude of sarcasm but I was simply sharing information. And if something makes you feel that aggravated, tell me when it happens or don't bother to say anything anymore instead of waiting for two weeks to say something. Of course he will test that one for a while still. I'm not sure he is done testing the D one either. I just simply do not react in the same way I used to and because of that, he has tried different approaches to test those changes, and he is finding the door closed to most of them. Of course no one is perfect, and he has managed to get me to react, or begin to react in the old way a few times. I have been able to catch myself though. So I am really proud of me. The animal thing, that is more of a vindictive, being a b**ch kind of thing if I were to do it now than anything else.
FG, I too was suicidal at one point during this and crawling out of that pit was a major struggle for me, but as we both are evidence, it can be done. Yes I too am glad MIL is gone. Even with everything I have endured with H, her leaving brought great peace to my life, which is something I have not known. Yes I am still in many ways living with her still with H, but I can live with that. She tried to initiate contact again in the last six months after not hearing from her for a year and a half, and it was a bump in my road. I really had to evaluate my stand because to be honest, I was not sure if I wanted to be with H if she was a part of it. That was a difficult process for me as well. With a lot of prayer, I came to a point within me that I knew protecting my S from it was number one, and that I would not be more than cordial if I had to deal with her, and that if H chose that path, it was his and not mine and I told him as much. God has interceded and moved her 14 hours away just in the last month and her contact with H has been less than minimal. I know it hurts him but IMO, it is better for him in the long run.
I'm glad you are reading Zukav. I have read a lot of his books and others as well and I have always known that going within brings peace and connection, just didn't always walk that path myself. It is one of those life lessons I guess. Personally, I think that MLCer's, they are doing this in their own way. It isn't as rational or intellectual, reading books and whatnot, but I honestly think that they are searching. They just don't want to do it, or like what they are seeing so they run or avoid and really take the long way around.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Yes, I like that Cat-that MLCers are doing it their own way;that means we`re giving them space to do that AND accepting that their way is just as valid as ours(even if it is a more circuitous route!Yawn!)
That bit about pushing buttons to make you very angry or upset and blaming you for everything....It took me a along time to realise that was H`s objective too. Now I`m walking the tightrope of calm while establishing boundaries too.
Just doing that alone takes me out of the crazy dance.
Its interesting to read about all the MLCers/WAS or whatever they are-having very dominant mothers and/or difficult childhoods.
Glad you`re seeing some progress with your communication.
You know what is sort of funny? When I first started changing my reactions, I actually felt CRAZY? I felt like I should be fighting back, but it definatly takes you out of the dance.
It is interesting to see the links to childhood in this stuff. The human brain is a very interesting animal. Sort of scary but very interesting.
Have a good weekend, I actually have a calm one this weekend but then next, back to the mommy taxi cab. LOL
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
ok, my thoughts on your last little encounter. Your H seems to let off steam in big way, then opens his window for the 30 sec chat to you. Given that as a kid he would have seen no skills in how to positively resolve relationship issues, and where he is now in la la land he can't think it through for himself, I reckon he is really asking you at that time to be his Lighthouse, as the very early posts refer to it (eg Yellowrose).
The first part, is that he needs you to say "I believe in us, and we CAN resolve this, and move to a better place". He needs to see you still believe in you, if that makes sense? You are the Lighthouse, shining through his fog.
And the second part, is that he needs you to suggest something he can do to move along, he needs help there. Not "you need to sort your anger out" but "when the time is right, and we can talk in a chillout out way, we will be able to start moving through this and putting this stuff behind us" (thats just an example, you will know much better than me) Words such as Stuff can be good, as it it general. Some sort of way so that when he is ready to try to move forward, there is A path he can take. It won't be the right path for him, thats his job, but it might be a path that can lead to the path he really needs. Does that make sense???
Its about getting things set up for when he does look back at you.
On the confusion thing, I noticed maximum confusion during anger and replay. Which way shall I drive into town??? Would take half the day!!! When the anger and replay cut right back, so did the confusion. I reckon during withdrawal those brain cogs whirl so much I can smell them burning! Its like this all the cards have been thrown in the air, and they are all coming down to land. How and where they land, of course is the big one. But they seem to head in one direction, instead of just being blown around in the storm,and that helps the clarity.
So H is pacing about the master bedroom like a lion in the cage yesterday evening. I know the drill by now: the humour is NOT good and there`s gonna be some fall out later on.
He pretends to watch a movie while laying the bed with DS11. I`m heading to bed anyway and hop in. H is none too thrilled. He gets up and I chat with DS11. When he leaves I switch on the TV again to see what the movie`s like. It looks promising enough but then H comes in and stands right square in front of the tv so I can`t see it. DS comes back too and I goof about with him. H leaves.
He`s back five minutes later H: When are we going to tell the kids? FG:When are we gonna tell the kids what?
Yuo, he`s going straight for the jugular-S talk. Wants us to tell the kids even though we have no arrangements made for S-no place for H to go to(I`m not leaving-you can go!), no talk about what to tell them re reasons or implcations for all of us.
H is getting angry at my reasoning-I don`t say much, just obvious questions re what shape S would take and he starts to use bad language. I call him on this. so he gets insulting, I stick my fingers in my ears so then he calms down. Sort of.
Then comes the bone cruncher. H: THe kids will never go down to (his home town) again FG Never ever? I`m surprised at this turn of events. So this is what the S talk is all about-MIL must of issued an ultimatum to H and he may well be threatening to withdraw the kids from her ever seeing them again.
He says he hasn`t told him sibs about S but that "they know our problems already"
Then he says "I can never go home again because of F**kin` YOU" and he raises his hands in a choking gesture while spitting out the words through gritted teeth. I`m lying in bed totally composed. He hasn`t succeeded to angering or upsetting me.
I tell him not to use that language to me but he`s leaving the room anyway. And I don`t go after him. I sleep well. He`s still in his Black Mood today-no apologies, no talk(though I pass a couple of comments).
Oh, I also forgot to add that the AH deleted all the cellphone numbers of my friends and family(yes, even my elderly frail Mum) on my cell phone.
Easily recovered I know but it shows you just how full of hatred he is.
I`m fine by the way. I feel calm and centred and have lots of other good things going on already today.Just not sure how much more of this I can and should take.
I believe H`s problem-and so does my T-is mainly rooted in his childhood experiences. I believe there is a better man lurking deep down there in the depths. I believe in unconditional love, in forgiveness, in hope. I believe in the moral of the Prodigal Son story and apply it to my Prodigal Husband.
But I`m not at all sure I`m right.
Do I need more hope? Or just a reality check at this point?
Thanks!
Thanks for you posts Cat and Storm. Kinda rushing this update out before H gets back so will respond to them when I can.
The man he is now is awfully angry. And verbally abusive. And on the edge of physically abusive. He could certainly change, but of course there is no certainty.
With all of his anger towards you, and the way everything is your fault, I am wondering if a separation might be a step forward. I am thinking that as long as he is living with you he has no reason to look at himself as a source of his troubles. Because it is all obviously your fault. Of course, at least at first, he'd probably still blame everything on you, but at least you wouldn't have to hear it.
Here's a real 180.... what if you started a conversation with him, and calmly brought up separation, and said you'd like to work out a plan with him, so that the two of you can tell the kids. Catch him when he isn't already wound up (if that's possible) and maybe you could have a rational conversation. Otherwise, I'm afraid he is going to make a unilateral plan, and blurt it out to the kids at the worst possible time. IF you bring it up, it might disarm him, a little.
I don't know what direction things would go after that, but I am not convinced that it would have to be downhill. Sometime you have to back up a bit before you can go forward.
