Divorce not busted 2

[sandi2]

Okie-dokie…well I seem to have started a couple of minds and post-stirring (lol). First, let me say that my intent is not to argue about what I’ve said, but I do want to be “understood” in what I said. That's an old fault of mine. So with that in mind I went back to reread my own posts after being so surprised at how Faithful (and maybe some others) interpreted it. I wanted to know if I made that big of a mess out of things. BTW, I welcome different POV on some matters b/c it causes me to stop and ponder more deeply about it and try to think of a different “possibility”. I don’t want you to feel that I was implying that “One Size Fits All”.

I have learned to inject words like “most”, “some”, “at times”, “occasionally”, “often”, “many” (do I need to continue?) and other words--so as to express the idea that I am not making it a “One Size Fits All” since we know how a lot of members analyze our posts (lol). How boring would it be on this board if there was one POV and nobody had something different to say? I can, however, see how frustrating it could be for Newcomers. But, back to what Faithful pointed out:

“How big is your sample size? Up until 6 months ago when I moved from CT to Dallas, I regularly (at least once a month) met with 15-20 men who speak of their unconditional love for their WAW's. I am still in daily contact with many of them. These men are some of the STRONGEST, INDEPENDENT men I have ever met. I think YOU might have unconditional love confused with some sort of boundariless thing that has nothing to do with unconditional love”

I thought I better look up the word “boundary” in the dictionary, to make sure I had not gone all my life mistaken about its definition. It says that it is something that indicates a border or limit. So, isn’t that like drawing a line in the sand and saying, “Don’t cross this line”? Isn’t that like putting a fence around the yard?

So then I decided to be on the safe side and go ahead and look up “unconditional” and the definition is without limits or conditions. So, would I be safe in saying that unconditional love cannot be earned nor is it deserved?

I don’t think I ever said that it never takes strong, independent people to love unconditionally. I regret that you took what I said the wrong way.

“I find it interesting to see how many people who are very clingy, needy, and co-dependent are the ones who usually say this.”

I used the words “how many” and “usually” and did not mean to imply they were a “One Size Fits All”.

Okay, now to the next part. (BTW, Faithful, I am not arguing with you either…just want you and some others here to understand what I said and then if you disagree, that’s fine.)

Let me add this quote before the other one in order to tie it in with the definitions of the two words of “boundary” and “unconditional”.

“maybe there is a good blend of strong boundaries and unconditional love.”

My question is how can you blend what has limits and what is limitless??? How could the two go hand in hand without there being a contradiction?

Okay, for the last quote:

“...it made me wonder why you think "nice & sweet" are the opposite of "strength & power"? Why not "Nice and sweet AND strong and powerful"? If I had displayed some of the behaviors that you said you wished your H showed....I can almost guarantee my W would have continued her run towards the D.”

Orich and his wife make me think of my H and I in our early years of M. I wanted to show Orich how much like him my H used to be and how I reacted to Mr. Nice Guy. I probably did not do a very good job of telling my story about my nice & sweet guy, but I treated my H as if he were “weak” b/c that was how I interpreted his “nice & sweet” treatment of me. It took him standing up to me for me to see his strength. In other men, I can see their nice & sweet ways as being strong & powerful, but I didn’t in my own H. I took advantage of my own H b/c it was not attractive to me at the time b/c I did want to see something different…yes, opposite from what I was seeing displayed in him. That is not to say that a strong, powerful, independent man cannot be nice and sweet. I’m not saying the definition is opposite, but I’m saying that the characteristics are often “seen” as being opposite and I think that nice & sweet people are tested by others b/c they are often misjudged as being “soft”. The strength comes from within. That was what I had to learn about my own H, but I was blinded by my own evaluation of what his traits were. Instead of respecting his nice, sweet ways and seeing him as being strong & powerful… I saw him as being weak. The whole point is that I did not respect him and that is what I wanted to try to get across to Orich. I was not attracted to my H b/c in his nice & sweet ways, he allowed me to walk all over him. I could say anything and he would sit there with his head down or else stare at the TV and not say a word. Maybe some women can respect this, but I was not one who could. It is hard for me to see how any woman could, but that's IMHO. I never wanted my H to get physical or act abusive in any way, but I think I needed him to be man enough to at least fight back at me when I was such a b!tch. And you guys don’t jump on me for using that expression…”man enough” b/c you know what I mean (and I won’t take it back!)

Orich, to you and Pigskin let me say this, I realize that both of you are confused about what to do in your stitch. Both of you are nice men who love their W’s very much. As far as I can tell, your W’s are blessed to have you. The problem is…the W’s don’t know that! Yes, there are many POV here on the board and some even clash with a few of the DR book’s techniques. Sometimes we may get so caught up in standing our ground to the point of almost forgetting why we are here. Then we see a Newcomer’s frustration at finding the right solution, and it quickly reminds us of what this board is all about. Orich, you are right. You should be able to come here to vent. However, as I’ve told some others, you need to let it be known that you are just venting or journaling so that members will realize that you aren’t looking for input, but you are letting off steam. (That is not just Orich, but anybody.)

So, I won’t keep on with this and will give space to somebody else to give advice to Orich. I mainly wanted to clear up any confusion or misinterpretations of my posts.