Thats the fine line I am stuck on. I want her to know I am still attracted to her, still love her. But I don't want to pursue and push her away. I thought I've been doing a relatively good job of this, as we seem to be getting along ok, no fighting or talking of splitting up. I am in this limbo, I imagine, until our Retro weekend in September.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
Maybe she gets some satisfaction out of being desired even if she doesn't want to ML. Perhaps she is trying to turn you on with the things she does. Then, completely hiding your desire would be a bad thing. I know I have always liked to see a little lust on a man's face, even if I had no desire to have sex with him. It says to me that I am attractive and desired. Sometimes, that's all I need to make me feel good about myself.
???????? What kind of nonsense is that?
If you are silly enough to think that showing that you desire a woman EVEN though she has no desire to have sex with you so that SHE can feel good about herself, then YOU BOTH have some deep issues... RUN from this type of woman. NEVER show this type of woman that you desire her. That is a selfish attitude and by her own admission is all about HER....
This is even more evidence to NOT pursue or let her know you desire her while she is in this type of mindset. It is rewarding behavior that is unacceptable.
Run from this type of woman that needs you to desire her to help her own self esteem even if she doesn't want you back. What a crock. It is nothing but selfish and self centered and doesn't work.
I'm agreeing with Gucci again, a lot. Scary stuff, Maynard.
That last post, about the hazards of feeding a woman sexual validation to bolster her self-image in a troubled relationship where there's no chance of sex actually happening .... Spot. On. Talk about a perfect way to paint yourself into a more-of-the-same corner ....
Ditto on the "who knows ya, baby?" post. With the caveat that IF you have really done your homework and thought seriously about such things as your spouse's LLs, what DIDN'T work in the past and what might therefore be a productive 180, etc ... then you MAY be in a better position to judge what would be effective than outsiders might. BUT that's a really stupid thing to *assume*, because those Emotionally-Charged-Blindness goggles are but THICK, man.
I just wanted to give the "me too" to Sandi's thoughts on unconditional love, too. Especially the bit about how letting anyone get away with really poor behavior is NOT loving. When you reward bad behavior, you reinforce it. Even in adults. How is that truly *loving*, long term? At what point do you become an accomplice through acquiescence?
It's spooky how much I find my personal philosophy articulated in science fiction, but I always thought Orson Scott Card expressed it well:
"The nicest thing we could do for Achilles (the villain of the piece) would be to post our address on the nets and wait for him to send someone to kill us."
"Don't be absurd," said Carlotta. "Christ said be *good* to your enemies. It wouldn't be good for Achilles to find us, because then he'd kill us and have even more murders to answer for before the judgment bar of God. The best thing we can do for Achilles is to keep him from killing us. And if we love him, we'll stop him from ruling the world while we're at it, since power like that would only compound his opportunities to sin."
It's one thing to not return evil for evil. It's quite another to assume the role of willing victim. Somewhere in the middle is real love.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Fallacy. Being emotionally involved many times gets in the way of seeing fact from fiction, what is right from what is wrong, making a good decision vs making a bad one...
Don't fall for that. We are not always the best judge of our spouse in these situations. Actually, it is usually quite the opposite.
I think once FULLY DETACHED, we are.
I also think VERY few people ever get fully detached.
I also think VERY few people ever get fully detached.
Puppy
I can't agree more with you Puppy. Full detachment is the promised land. How many of us ever hit the finish line??
I also don't think it's a sign of weakness, rather it's about how seriously you took your commitment.
But it also speaks to Gucci's point that we are not the best judge of our spouse. As soon as you realize that, then maybe full detachment is more attainable.
Strength and Honor.
Mules
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
