Thanks, Sara, I'm feeling pretty low right now. And, to add to that, no card or acknowledgement of the day. I wasn't expecting anything, but when it really didn't happen, it got me sad. Not that I am showing it of course. It's just another day. But it would have been nice.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
I hate to say it, but I think women think of the anniversary as their holiday, not the man's. I expect a card, flowers, dinner, etc from my H, but I don't give him anything. Unless you consider the sex after all that other stuff a gift. But I don't think of it as a gift to him. Don't take any of this stuff personally Orich. She is busy trying to make the days special for the boys, and you had a birthday celebration too. Next time, don't get married in early August. It's already too booked up!
"I wasn't expecting anything, but when it really didn't happen, it got me sad."
You just contradicted yourself right there. You have to get rid of your expectations so that they don't come off as a needy vibe from you.
I'm sure you had a hang dog expression after you didn't get anything back. You can't give your power and control away to her like that. She's confused. Don't let her make you confused as well.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
No, I posted before, above all she is the last one to know how upset I am. She always gets a smile and upbeat attitude. I can do that much of db. I left the card for her when I left for work, when I came home she didn't acknowledge the day at all. I didn't bring it up, either. Just another fine day.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
I think there is a difference between hope and expecting. One can hope for something but not expect it.
Big difference. We all hope our S will in some form like the card, acknowledge the day, etc. But none of us expect it to actually happen.
To often the 2 get confused I think.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Just like the quote in the movie Shawshank Redemption. "hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." Which is true to a point. As long as it doesn't come with an expectation. All expectations are are premeditated resentment.
"I wasn't expecting anything, but when it really didn't happen, it got me sad."
You just contradicted yourself right there. You have to get rid of your expectations so that they don't come off as a needy vibe from you.
I'm sure you had a hang dog expression after you didn't get anything back. You can't give your power and control away to her like that. She's confused. Don't let her make you confused as well.
orich, this probably isnt the best day to say this but i hope you get the take away message. I have put some serious time in what seems now like forever into thinking why "they" donot acknowledge birthdays, anniversaries or even christmas presents.
"They" do not like "us" and they are making a point that they really donot want to reconcile. They are here now because there is no other place for them to go.
Think about it. Your buddies recognize your birthday, the receptionist at work probably even says happy birthday, your in-laws and parents will tell you happy anniversary but not your wife. why? she knows damn well what day it is and knows very well how you feel about the marriage. her point is to stick a knife into it.
Take away point. TIME FOR A SERIOUS 180 on your part.
You have probably come across as pursuing, needy, and depressed about your situation. I think that is a natural reaction to being heartbroken and sex starved. You probably were like that in high school and cried when your first girlfriend broke up with you to date the senior football player; and it probably worked on your wife in the earliest stages of your marital problems.
There is a prevalent taught on this board that that behaviour only serves to push the WAS further away. I am convinced that in most cases they are so far away that there is no more pushing them they only view that behavior with disrespect and pity. If that behaviour isn't working. time to do something completely different.
I think you need to decide what that is based on what hasnt worked for you in the past. but, have you ever noticed that the guy who "acts" like he doesn't really want the girl is the one who ends up with the girl.
Steve McQueen
P.S. I hope I am completely wrong and you get laid tonight.
So many viewpoints! I don't know how you can decide which way to go Orich! I think I will agree that you need to try to keep the marriage retreat your goal. Hang in there as best you can to make it to the retreat. I have not been there and not sure what all they teach, and I don’t want to add confusion to the melting pot or go against what the retreat teaches. I do, however, want to point out something about being a nice guy. You see, I married the nicest of nice guys. Before we M, I loved the fact he was nice…and “sweet”. He was “cute” to me. But after M, guess what I did? I not only mistreated him, but I took him for granted…big time. I knew he could buy me a gift on our anniversary or Christmas and if I didn’t have time to get him one…well what difference did it make--and I knew he’d never say a word. In fact, that is just what happened and I was right…he didn’t say a word about it. I’m sure he had to have been hurt and greatly disappointed. But, I flat did not “care” enough. So, I am afraid that women like your W and me don’t really deserve nice guys like you and my H. You know, when I think back to some things that happened and remember how unconcerned I was, I really think my H should have called my hand on it. He should have said something to me about the fact how he showed how he felt for me at Christmas and I showed him how I felt (meaning that I felt nothing for him b/c I gave nothing to him). That would have gotten my attention and given me a good kick in the pants without making him appear weak. (At least, that would have worked in my stitch, I don’t know about other people.) It would have made me look at myself and see how selfish and unconcerned I was being. When women take their H’s for granted, they stop caring…and they sure stop “working” at the MR. Have you ever observed different couples and how so many times you will see some jerk M to a sweet, pretty girl? Don’t you wonder about that? OTOH, we can see a really nice guy who is married to a b!tch. So, there you go…the person who is M to the really nice one in the R-- is taking that nice person for granted. You probably can’t help but be nice and sweet b/c that is who you are and I’m sure your mother raised you right. But, I can tell you that your W wants a man who will not take any cr@p off of her and will tell her how the cow ate the cabbage instead of sucking it up and continuing being Mr. Nice Guy. Doesn’t make sense, does it? But, that is pure old human nature. As I told you last time, when I felt so cold toward my H…the nicer he was, the colder I became. I didn’t want to see nice & sweet…I wanted to see strength & power. That was what I thought I saw in my OM and why I was attracted to him. After my H stopped being Mr. Nice Guy to me (unless I deserved his niceness), I begin to see his strength and power more clearly and appreciate him more. Your W is not sexually attracted to you and you will have to do what you can to try to become attractive in ways other than just how you look. She also has work to do in herself, but I’m afraid she’s too immature at this point to see that. She’s all hung up on “feelings” and wanting the in-love emotions like she felt when she was first with you. She has found herself at a different stage in the MR and she doesn’t like it b/c it takes too much work. It’s all grand when we can just run on that emotional “in-love” energy, but when that emotional level tappers off and we wake up one morning with “life” staring us back in the face…we either learn how to put our a$$ into gear and start “working” at having a good M or we lose it. A good M does not “just happen”…it takes hard work!
I am probably going to open a can of worms here when I get off into this subject. There are several differences of opinions here on the board about almost every subject. One of my pet peeves is concerning “unconditional love” and we hear this topic discussed in Church groups all the time. I think I am about the only person I know in my circles who has the guts to actually speak up and say that I don’t believe we should look at M as being “unconditional” love. That always shocks people out of their gourd when I say that. But stop and think about it-- we all put “conditions” to our love for our spouse! I know I do. I would not put up with him doing “anything” and continue to stay M to him. He could do certain things that would kill my love for him. I believe if people would be honest, they would have to admit the same thing. But, it sounds so much better to say that we are suppose to love unconditionally. It is what Christians should do. WWJD? Right? Well, in the first place…..oh, never mind… don’t even get me started on that! Anyway, I think the person who does put up with any sort of treatment from their S and say they are applying unconditional love….is a person who will not have love in return. Their S will not only disrespect them, but they will either abuse them or do other actions that show their lack of love. Yes, there are a few people that we can love unconditionally…very few. But I find it hard to believe that you can stay happy in a MR and love “unconditionally” in the true sense of the word. Dr. James Dobson tells a story in his book Tough Love about a woman whose Church told her she needed to stay with her adulterous H and love him unconditionally. To make a long story short, the H finally ended up bringing his lover into the M home and even wanting his W to share the bed with him and his lover. So, where does one draw the line? Exactly! There has to be boundaries in a M….or another term would be loving conditionally. We do learn to forgive a lot! We do learn to give & take a lot! And, some of us have to learn to love a lot! I think your W has to lot to learn.
Keep coming here to get all the different POV and do what you feel is the right thing for Orich. But remember, it is hard to get our emotions out of the way long enough to see “the right thing” a lot of times. You have this month to do a lot of thinking before you go to Retro. I just hope you won’t sit back and take disrespect from her. It’s one thing to let a certain amount of stuff run off your back (give & take), but it’s another not to show your manly strength and self-respect.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
After my H stopped being Mr. Nice Guy to me (unless I deserved his niceness), I begin to see his strength and power more clearly and appreciate him more.
BINGO... Read that over and over again...
Well said Sandy. How true. I don't think I will ever understand why the "nice guy" can't see this reality. No matter how much that fact hits them in the face they just keep trying more of the same, with a slightly different slant.
And the story continues on and the nice guy keeps hoping.. day after day, month after month.....
Maybe today she will see how nice I am and come running back to me with open arms.... maybe tomorrow.. and the story continues....
meanwhile the guy with confidence strength and backbone has women doing anything they can to be with him... as the "nice guy" wonders why and tries again to win her love the next day....
How long Orich? 9 months on this site and counting. How long?
