yeah, today, I'm just tired. I worked the blahs out and now I'm planning my rainy weekend with my boy. H will be at our place at night this weekend, he's got a golf tournament. I plan to keep things light and not discuss very much of anything important.
Alright. I think H is mostly over the OW and the A. She's engaged and I think she just got a new job in her hometown. Turns out the fiance has a lot of connections and managed to get her some interviews and they are probably going to over look her criminal record. (What a loser.) Anyways. My new concern. This may be the super paranoid, I've been super hurt crazy girl in me....but I'm worried he wants one more opportunity to hang out with her. At first I asked him NOT to go to her going away party. H is convinced she won't have one....he said aside from him, he not sure who would throw one for her. He did promise me he will NOT throw one for her, won't suggest it to anyone else and won't help organize it.....he again says no one else would do it and he sure doesn't want to so that was an easy one to promise me that he won't. Well, I talked to a friend who said it was friend's opinion that it's very respectful that he won't make me a promise he can't keep, which is he won't go to the going away party. (I think someone will organize it, if only to organize a work get together.....but who knows?) So I back tracked a bit and told H "Look, I talked to a friend and if there is a going away party you should go. But I just ask that you come home to us that night." He looked at me and said "There probably won't be a party and yes, if I went, I will come home to you. Not a problem, but really, I don't think there will even be a party."
I just wish she would leave. Things are so much better between us now and he says on a regular basis he wants nothing to do with her and he's doing everything he can to convince her to take a job back home and he wants her the hell out of his life.....so, we'll see.
At first I asked him NOT to go to her going away party. H is convinced she won't have one....he said aside from him, he not sure who would throw one for her. He did promise me he will NOT throw one for her, won't suggest it to anyone else and won't help organize it.....he again says no one else would do it and he sure doesn't want to so that was an easy one to promise me that he won't.
I still don't understand WHY you keep bringing her up with him..
Is HE talking about her ?
Cause if he isn't bringing her up and YOU are ?
Originally Posted By: almostdonebut...
Well, I talked to a friend who said it was friend's opinion that it's very respectful that he won't make me a promise he can't keep, which is he won't go to the going away party. (I think someone will organize it, if only to organize a work get together.....but who knows?)
Still don't understand.....
Exactly WHY does this matter to you ?
Originally Posted By: almostdonebut...
So I back tracked a bit
Ya think ?
Originally Posted By: almostdonebut...
So I back tracked a bit and told H "Look, I talked to a friend and if there is a going away party you should go. But I just ask that you come home to us that night." He looked at me and said "There probably won't be a party and yes, if I went, I will come home to you. Not a problem, but really, I don't think there will even be a party."
Am I the only one not getting this ?
If I am, then I feel stupid....
Originally Posted By: almostdonebut...
I just wish she would leave. Things are so much better between us now and he says on a regular basis he wants nothing to do with her and he's doing everything he can to convince her to take a job back home and he wants her the hell out of his life.....so, we'll see.
Not to criticize your reply because I think it was actually very good, one thing I have learned through all of this, men and women react very very differently to OP.
From a female perspective, I can understand where Almost is coming from. Women go through so many things in a M that changes them, their bodies, their horomones, etc... that no matter how much they know the OW is not REALLY the problem, they think in some ways she must be. Almost, her being gone will not change how YOU feel. But you must realize, she is not BETTER than you, sexier than you, smarter than you, and she has no more to offer H than you do. She was just different. And she made him feel different about himself. She wanted him for NO reason other than she wanted him. She liked him not for what he could do for her but because she did. She was not real life, but probably quite a bit like you were with him when you were dating. Just another human trying to connect. It was when the pressure started that he saw it for what it was, a R that he really didn't want.
After the first OW, during his first crisis, I tried everything I could to be like her because I figured that was what H wanted. I even dyed my hair the color hers was. That actually made me feel worse about myself than I did before. The bottom line is I wasn't being me anymore. The me that H fell in love with. I was wife, mother, housekeeper, etc...I didn't listen to H's day with a whole lot of interest because I had home and child concerns on my mind as well as my own work stuff. I wanted his help with those things. The honey do list never ended and I never really expressed much appreciation for the things he did because I was doing twice as much and he didn't seem to appreciate it either. Stupid huh?
Yes, this is the second crisis. Did we learn from the first one, yes and no. Things changed some, but then life sort of took over. H never resolved a lot of his true issues, but you know what, I never resolved a lot of mine either. This one has been much much worse. The anger from H has been greater, my anger has been greater. For the last year, we have lived in the same house and hardly spoke on most days. For all intents and purposes, we were living in separate places instead of different rooms. Our lives really have been separate.
I have said before that something is changing. It is I am just not sure what it is or what it means and I'm not about to really start questioning it, I'm just keeping my eyes and ears open and continuing to try to learn. I will not try to be the OW this time. I don't even know if she is gone and I really don't care right now. She is unimportant in this whole thing. I like me better. I have more confidence, like when we met. I do not allow H to treat me the way that he used to, by not reacting in the same manner I did. I do not ask about the status of us, I just live everyday like I did when we met. Grateful he is around, happy in what I do, doing what I want or have to do, sharing with H what is going on in the house, with S, but in a much different way than I did before. I don't try to anticipate his every need or want. I don't try to make everything perfect so he will be happy. Yes, I do still tell him what needs to be done around here, but I don't dump it on him the minute he walks in the door. Actually, unless it is something imperative, I just leave it for him to figure out. I don't remind him about his "chores" and guess what, the pool has NOT turned green, the laundry gets put away, the cars have not fallen apart and the roof has NOT caved in. And not one single check has bounced. In the past 6 weeks or so, since his last real blow up with me, after I decided that I just was not talking unless I was spoken to because I was just tired, he has started talking to me. He has shared with me about his job and I have been interested. Genuinely interested, which has made him want to share more. I have listened to him reminisce about his childhood, and believe it or not, after 20 years, there are still things for me to learn about my H. He is sharing his aches and pains with me, and I have not mommied him. I have SUGGESTED a dr. visit, asked him if he has tried this or that, offered him antibiotics for his ear, and let him take the lead. Without showing anything more than a little concern in his well being and trusting that he can take care of himself.
You have to find a way to get over her. Really get over her because she is nothing. He is not with you by default. Telling him to go but come back to you is racked with self pity, insecure messages, and guilt even if you don't realize it. I see it because I lived it. Drove my H nuts because no matter how often I said, I love you, I trust you, I believe in you, my words, actions, and insecurities did NOT show him that. I know it is hard to get over. Believe me I know it is. But please take this piece of advice to heart if you can, IF you really really want your M and you do not want to go through this again, get rid of all of the feelings you have about her. No you can't really share them with him. He has his own guilt. But if he thinks even the littlest bit that what he did holds a place in your head, in how you view him, in how you treat him, down the road, you could be here again.
So this is not a point in time to relax, it is actually a point where you really need to look deep with in, find your answers, and continue on. You can do it.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
So that's where I am now. Basically the plan is to back off, keep working on me, drop several particular topics and hope he keeps his promises about certain things he won't do anymore.
Keep your fingers crossed for me!
Cat, It's okay, I understand what you are saying....
This is why I'm confused by these convos........
And if she keeps pushing him instead of honoring his wishes....Oooops, here we are again....
You are not wrong in any way, shape, or form. I don't disagree with anything you said.
She is circling because she is still trying to find a way to predict why H was with OW, if he really has learned, if he will really keep his promises, and basically she is waiting for the other shoe to just drop. It may, it may not. It is really up to her in so many ways.
Like you, I want to see her do this right, and pushing and talking about it, will probably backfire. But she does have to process and deal with her feelings or the insecurities that she will have/has will also backfire in her face down the road. That is all I was really trying to say. Simply in a different way. By looking at what is underlying the actions because as we both know, it is not a simple as just saying, it really doesn't matter. If life were that simple......
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
You are not wrong in any way, shape, or form. I don't disagree with anything you said.
She is circling because she is still trying to find a way to predict why H was with OW, if he really has learned, if he will really keep his promises, and basically she is waiting for the other shoe to just drop. It may, it may not. It is really up to her in so many ways.
Like you, I want to see her do this right, and pushing and talking about it, will probably backfire. But she does have to process and deal with her feelings or the insecurities that she will have/has will also backfire in her face down the road. That is all I was really trying to say. Simply in a different way. By looking at what is underlying the actions because as we both know, it is not a simple as just saying, it really doesn't matter. If life were that simple......
I know, and really NOT tryin to be edgy about this.
I understand completely what you are sayin...
To understand HIM, she will drive herself just as looney as he is right now though....
The NEGATIVE expectations can kill this just as quickly as the positive ones....
Almost, I'm not upset, but on SEVERAL of your posts, you have mentioned backing off and giving him space, which is what he asked you for. And then you seem to turn the heat up for yourself by talking about this.....
Read your words again....It's really there....
IF....and I mean IF, HE is bringing this up....
ALL you should be doing is validating him for now....until you get on more stable footing.
If there needs to be a boundry? Then you set it...FOR YOU, and no other reason is needed....
But to go through all of this because of a might be ?
That seems fruitless to me......
I MIGHT get hit by a pterodactyl on the way home, but I'm not getting out my protective suit for that.....
You gotta draw him back.....not tie a line around him and drag him....
Almost, you may not feel like I did, although you are doing exactly some of the things that I did, and wondering the same things.
The bottom line, the mights, what if's, did she do's, will simply make you nuts. And they are not worth the energy put into the. I was also trying to show you that the separation that H and I have/had is changing. Why? Because not only did I give him the space he has asked for (and he asked for it in a big way by totally shutting himself off to me) but took the time and space and used it to my advantage, rebuilding myself. A year ago, I honestly thought that the only way I would ever know anything about H again would either be learned through a lawyer or through my S. In the last few weeks, I have learned more than he probably shared with me the entire year between bombs. Pretty interesting turn of events. So yes, as hard as it is, listen to what he is asking for and really try to do it. Don't make it a plan, make it a way of life. Let him lead where this goes.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Yes, he's bringing it up because it's still something very much, literally in his face. She is calling him again and I asked "Then why answer when she calls?" His answer "To get rid of her, to get her to leave." Ok. Then don't complain about it. I don't say this but it seems pretty easy in terms of solution to me.....but what do I know?
In terms of the party or them hanging out again....I'm concerned about the physical possibilities. H was drunk and confessed some things to me including when and where they happened. At this point, I would like to torch his car and destroy the make up room where they work. (Oh, and the doors have been removed from said make up rooms.....wonder why????) So my concern is simple: I would rather he not be in a position to tempt himself. I don't know that he's completely over this OW while he often says he has contempt for her.
Also she has told me point blank: (and H knows this, hence his contempt, at least some of it) she screwed with my H because she blames me for her ex-boyfriend dumping her, the ex-boyfriend she would still like to be with but he wants nothing to do with her. I had nothing to do with it, but it's easier for her to blame me than him or herself. Whatever. My conscience is clear on that one. But yes, she admits to this. So I don't put it past her to continue to want to hurt me and yank H's chain some more.
I am not bringing her up. He is. I normally just listen and ask the occasional question, such as "Why answer the phone or respond to texts if you have so much contempt for her?" I have yet to ask him "Why do you talk to me about this?" Which is the number one question I do have, but why bother? I think the true answer is because he needs to for now.....but not sure he understands why.
Also for me, for me to recover from this, I NEED and I mean NEED to know for sure, that he PICKE ME. That he understood I was the prize....never the fall back because something else didn't work out. And choosing to not hang out with her in any capacity would be an indication to me for that. And I've told him as much and he said "I do understand all of that."
We are slowly addressing issues that led us here. We're doing the at home fitness program despite his blah feelings for it. We have one more "chapter" or whatever you want to call them to do and that's the one called "Protecting Your Marriage" and it covers EA's in great depth. I don't think he understands EAs or how they work and how destructive they will be to us. I learned a lot from it myself...so I hope he will too.
He's been a lot more open on his side about what went wrong for him and fortunately, it's stuff I know I can make a concentrated effort on and it will benefit me in many ways....such as being more affectionate, not sex, but true affection. I don't know if it's a cultrual thing for me, but I've never been touchy feely but I do like hugging as much as the next woman...I guess I don't need it as much, but I now understand HE DOES. And while his list was short, it was important and everything on his list, I can make those changes and I can keep them up for the rest of my life and I think my son will benefit from all of this too....a mother who loves to hug can only be a great thing, right? So, yes, we are working on previous issues to fix things for our future.
Bottom line, the physical things that happened between them are things I'm still digesting and working through because he just recently confessed them to me. Before this, I wasn't sure. I'm hopeful I can get over these things but in the meantime to help me do that, I need to know he wanted to come home....he didn't just say "Oh well, I'll just go back to my wife since this didn't work out." I have to feel like the prize and frankly, I'm still at a place where I am very new to figuring this out.
In DR it very clearly states that cutting off all contact is something the non-cheating spouse needs....it will help in recovery. And MWD is absolutley right. His absolute complete cutting OW off would go a very long way in our relationship right now. Unfortunately....and this is NOT H's fault, he still works with her, so I deal with that but...
I have stuff to figure out. Not socializing with her is one of my boundaries. He cheated on me with her no matter how he feels about, I see it as cheating. So I would prefer there be as close to 0 contact as possible. My feelings on that just aren't going to change.
Almost, believe me when I tell you that I understand how you feel. This ow thing is hard to get your mind around.
Here's the thing, yes, in DR it says that the non cheating spouse needs for the other to stop seeing the ow. But that is only if the cheating spouse is willing to do that. I dont think your h is just yet.
Look, he will see her or not see her, talk to her or not. And no amount of you asking him not to, telling him not to, is going to stop that. He could promise you til next week, not going to matter. He is ready when he is ready.
What are you going to do about it?
I can tell you that pushing him and making him promise is not going to get you the desired result.
So, you really need to let this die its own natural death or it will come back to bite you in the a@@.
Try not to give this woman any headspace because really she is not worth it. She is a sympton of whatever it is is going on with your h. She matters not.
This is his journey. He needs to take it and you need to continue on yours.
