Hello Kittyfish & Sandi2!

[BigJohn]

Sandi,

Thank you for another terrific post. I really appreciate the time and thought that you always put into your posts but especially this one.

After you told me about OM's younger OW, I think your W will be more determined than ever to pursue him,b/c now it is more than just her fantansy "love" for OM, but it involves a competition to “win” this man from a woman who is younger than her, so she has a lot of ego at stake here. I’m really sorry to here about this younger woman b/c it makes “winning” important to your W. What both of us know, is that the OM probably has more than these two women on his string. When you described him to me, I figured that the only R’s he has is with women over the Internet.

This is the same conclusion I came to as well regarding my W's likely thought process. I may have mentioned before that the OM last had a real world R that supposedly lasted 4 yrs- apparently it was a live-in situation with a woman and two small children which ended 11/08 with OM breaking the woman's arm. OM told my W the OW "fell" after he pushed her; W bought the story hook/line/sinker. I've wondered on occasion whether my W might be some sort of "rebound" R for OM- not that it makes much difference right now.

1.In her mind, the M is over anyway, and she is moving on with a new chapter with OM.
2.If you tell her you aren’t sure if M will survive if she gets pregnant or STD…it is kind of like saying that you will take her back if she screws around a couple of times, but no more than that. That puts you in a disrespectful and unattractive position. Makes you look “needy”. I know you don’t mean to imply that you are giving your permission for her to have a PA as long as it’s just a few times and as long as she doesn’t get pregnant or STD, but it may sound that way to her ears.

Very good point- I agree. In hindsight, I don't need to start splitting hairs with her on the sex issue- she knows damn well how I feel about it.

3.I do not think anything you say is going to stop her now. Unless she has a spiritual awakening at the camp this week, I don’t believe any words from anyone will prevent her from meeting OM. She feels this is her “destiny”. She thinks this is her second chance at happiness.

I definitely agree with the idea of a R with OM being her "destiny"- she admitted this to me more or less early on in the EA. My W certainly seems to be doing everything she can in her power to make this R with OM a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I doubt there will be much if any spiritual awakening with her at camp. There is cell reception up there so I know she is continuing to get her daily "fix" by at least texting OM.

5.This younger OW has put an entirely new light and intensity on the “battle” for OM. It is very important to your W that she can win this competition b/c she is the older woman here and what better ego boost (in her opinion) could she have than to think she won OM from a younger contender.

I think I've mentioned before that OM's behavior has been erratic at times towards my W- he apparently vacillates between loving/not loving her, being nice/not nice, tells her he wants to marry her one minute then says he doesn't need or want her in his life, etc. The guy just sounds like a psycho. From what I can gather about OW she is single, much more accessible than my W and presents significantly less if any risk of resistance from family/friends than a R with my W.

When a woman is as mixed up as your W, she would choose OM over anyone…even her children. This is extremely hard to hear, but you have to keep reminding yourself that she isn’t the person you M and have loved all these years. She isn’t the “mother” she’s always been or she would not be able to do what she’s doing.

I recognize this and I think it's quite possible that my W could eventually abandon the kids with me in order to go live with OM. She can't take the kids to live out of state and OM is not going to give up everything to come live in our state. Plus OM has said before that he hated the kids of his ex-girlfriend whose arm he broke, so ultimately my kids are deal breakers (pardon the pun)for the OM.

It is something that nobody understands how a woman could do what she does. How could she give up everything for that sorry excuse for a man? It isn’t “him”, the person; as much as it is the fantasy she has built in her mind. That OM is nothing like her fantasy, but she has not seen it for herself. That is what you have to decide if you can risk with her going to see him. Will that get her eyes open to the truth? But now that I know about this younger OW, it makes things worse…as far as your W getting her eyes open. However, maybe the OM will dump your W and be ugly enough that it will shock her back into reality. I’m afraid that he will have sex with her, first, then dump her.

I'm not sure seeing OM in person is going to do anything but reinforce my W's feelings for him. I think that he will eventually dump her, it's more a question of "when" vs. "if" and how much sex and ego boosting he can get from my W before he does. That and seeing how much he can "ruin" my W for me- someone who is far better than him- before dumping her.

After thinking this over, I believe that you saying absolutely NOTHING about the trip, OM, a possible PA, her parents, the anniversary……would have a stronger influence. If she comes back from camp and mentions OM or the trip in any way, I believe if you just keep your mouth closed and don’t react in any way…she will notice that quicker.

Will do. So forget about the TM on the anniversary then as well?

Big John, unless she has a huge turn around at the Church this week, then I think if there was ever a time for you to drop the rope and go on about your life for her to “see” that you don’t care what she does anymore…then this is the time to do it. You are worried about detaching. You’re concerned she thinks you’ve given up on the M. All LBH’s who are not truly detached think this way! Sweetie, you are not detached. You have tried, but you’ve not made it.

Agreed, when I fall into that line of thinking it does show that I am not all the way there yet. But I am getting closer- my post from a couple days ago definitely was what I was feeling and coming from at the time.

I can read your fear in your post as it grows closer to the time for her to leave, and I believe she can see that fear in you. I can’t imagine how hard it must be for you to hide it!

I try to let it all out- the fear, apprehension- at the gym and posting here. So far I think I'm doing a pretty good job masking it from my W.

When a WAW thinks you no longer care what she does b/c you are going to live your life without her in it…then that gets her attention! You are afraid to believe that. You have been too afraid to do that b/c of your fear of losing her. I think you will be too afraid to do it now b/c you feel that you have to make some “last stand” for your M. Has anything you’ve done toward showing her your “stand for the M” worked yet? No, it hasn’t. I will not tell you that you MUST drop the rope or all is lost… b/c if she went on with the PA and things turned out badly, you would always believe it was due to dropping the rope instead of showing her that you still cared. To me, dropping the rope is a stnd for your self-respect.

Reading a post last night from a former LBH who dropped the rope on his former WAW testified to the truthfulness of what you say. In that former LBH's sitch, his WAW D'd him only to later come to the realization of the mess she made of her life and tried to get her H back. Only by then, he had moved on and had remarried.

It is true that life will go on for me if my W and I D. In that case,it will not be a bed of roses in the beginning for me, but in the end it will be me who will come out on top. I know I need to learn to successfully detach if I'm going to get through this sitch with my W. I need to for myself- for my self respect- and for my kid's sake.

Thanks again Sandi for all your prayers and support. It means a lot to me. Talk to you soon.