back after 10 weeks of recovery and need some help

[steady]

More questions...
Do you keep saying ILY to keep the connection alive? I stopped the first time and she called me on it. Not so sure his time.

Is she saying it back? Does she initiate it at all? Does she get that uncomfortable look on her face when you say it to her. Pay attention the next time you say it to her. Are you just blurting it out or is there real feeling behind it? Try to feel the effect it has on her..without a mental translation. NEVER say it to her to take the temperature of the relationship. Is she just saying it or is there substance behind it?

Do you stop doing the kiss goodnight and goodmorning? This stayed throughout the dark times.

Keep doing it. Who initiates the kisses? You? Her? Both of you at times?

Do you stop the calls in the afternoon to ask how things are going so she can vent on how the kids are on her last raw nerve? I don't want W to use that against me later...

No you don't stop. If it's a normal part of your routine with her and she's not showing any distaste for it then keep doing it.

Do you try and start conversations like normal adults or leave it uncomfortably quite with no interaction?

Yes you talk with her like you normally converse. Just don't initiate any relationship or marriage talks. You have to learn how to DETACH. When you do, you won't have this kind of question anymore.

Also, what do you do when it seems like W is competing with you for the kids attention and hearts? Doing or giving them whatever they want. Candy, games, toys from the store?

Competition or guilt? Be careful when you assume to know the intentions of another person. You aren't privy to her internal world. It's your interpretation of what you perceive is her intention...

Do I keep doing things with my W that we have always done?

Yes.

I ask these questions because no matter how my times I have the books it just makes sense in these cases. This seems to the last chance at anything. And it is seeming like the slimest chance at this point.

You have no idea if it's the last chance or if it has the slimmest of chances. There was a guy here who was standing in front of the judge TWO times for a final divorce decree ... and he ended up working on piecing his marriage together. Now talk to him about the slimmest of chances.

You are labeling the situation with these. Be careful, because you will operate from the point of view that is a desperate 'last attempt'. Again, DETACHING IS THE KEY.

You can't read the future, nor can you predict if from past or present appearances. I had sex with my W in December after a year of not having it, then in January she told me she wants a divorce. Go figure.

Forget about trying to interpret what the future will look like. You have no friggin idea.

Go read this:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1721756#Post1721756

As a matter of fact I need to go read that again also.

[steady]

I am just stumped. I am kinda getting the feeling like she cares not about the overall situation just about hers. Tomorrow will be interesting.

Welcome to the world of the WAW. This is typical script.

[Doingitright]

Steady thanks....
On 1 she hasn't initiated ILY recently. I called her on it just before she moved into her room (before she said there was a problem) and W said she always says it just not first. She doesn't need to say it all the time. Just knows I love her and I should know she loves me, it should be understood. She was secure in the relastionship. On the recent calls it feels like a game of chicken who will say it. I know she is waiting so I didn't day it and neither did she. She no longer says it at night time so I have been saying. With the kids around it is necessary.

On 2 morning me good bye me and W hello after work me. Goodnight her.
On 3 will keep doing it
On 4 understood
On 5 can't explain in just a few words. Kids sit with me to watch tv or help we cook in the kittchen and she comes up with something else to do. She puts down whatever book she is reading. Not what used to happen a week ago or so. I will grow some thicker skin on this one
On 6 will do
On 7 will try. Sorry to hear your sitch
We have MC today. Should be interesting. The last MC brought the pain to which she has associated the current living arrangements. Also her trying to feel well. Will update later.

[steady]

On the MC issue. I would talk to the MC and see if you can have them on healing the R and looking foward rather than rehashing what happened in the past (you may want to talk to them about this in private). Constantly looking backwards just reminds the WAW of the pain they felt and it makes it so they feel that pain again and again every time it is revisited.

[Doingitright]

Steady. Thanks. Already talked to him. Walked throgh options of what can be covered. W has a lot of "bad H" things she is holding in the bank. I think she needs them to come out of savings so W can get it off her chest. It can be a H bashing session for all I care. Offered to let W go alone but said we will both go.
I read your thread. It is kind of irony as detaching is almost exactly what W has done. Take care of herself. Concentrate on things for her. Not focus on things around her unless the benefit W. Eyes on yourself.

I am struggling with adding more to my plate. I really like my life the way it is. I have freinds that I do stuff with. We all work and travel for work often so we only get together a couple times a month. W says I should do it more. But I don't want to and niether do my freinds. Now their W's are all sahm's. They all hang together at the pool etc. They all want to go away often. They are home all day while the H's are not. I want to enjoy the home I pay for. This seems to the rub with quite a few of the M's of my nieghborhood freinds.

Quite the quandry. A freind is going through something similar to my sitch but it is not as far as mine. His W and mine are BFF.

The morning was odd. I am detaching and going about my business. More detached after reading your thread. W did odd things but I did not acknowledge or give creadence. Will give more details later. Good luck in your day.

[Doingitright]

So here is the update after MC. MC asked what commitment we had. I said to see it through to making a better marriage. W said no matter which way she turns it she doesn't see much happiness in our future. W thinks we will just stay living our lives just the way they are, her in her room and me somewhere else in the house.

W said I am just waiting for her to say hello, give me a kiss or say ILY. But that was it. Of course that is the detachment working but I am not sure it went the right way for me. (thought on this would be great). W then said she was trying to remember the happiness we, her and I alone, had before kids and she cant find it. Pre-Kids would be almost 11 years ago.

W said I need to work on myself. No details nothing else. Also I need to go out more. Said I was and have been working on that. W said another secret mission that I didn't let her know. I said I own that and I will do better to tell her when I am trying to make plans and not just when I have plans.

There were more about bad things and trust issues and a few things came up that were supposed to have been resolved according to her admission but she still used them. MC asked what we would be doing and W said living as individuals. I said we are still married and should act that way. We are individuals that are married. I left it at that.

MC left it up to us to see if we wanted to come back or not. He said we as a couple have the most potential and can easily save what we have. And he said he cant say that about many of his clients. Not everyone has the potential to recover and save their marriage, we do. We had an absolutely silent ride back home. Not one word uttered.

Any thoughts. I will post details from the morning which are now even more odd given what happened at MC. Detaching but not sure what to do next. W's school thing is looming, vacation in just a few weeks and then kids back in school. Some of these I am looking forward to and other's...blahh

[steady]

W said I am just waiting for her to say hello, give me a kiss or say ILY. But that was it. Of course that is the detachment working but I am not sure it went the right way for me.

Can you clarify this for me?

W then said she was trying to remember the happiness we, her and I alone, had before kids and she cant find it. Pre-Kids would be almost 11 years ago.

Ok don't pay any mind to this. My W did the same exact thing. She basically reduced it down to this: she was never in love with me, we never really had a marriage, all we ever really did was screw and not make love, etc... they re-write the past in order to justify what they are thinking and feeling now. They have to do this to rationalize their behavior.

[Doingitright]

On 1. She said I was just waiting (waiting around I guess) for her to say ILY instead of me. Waiting around for her to kiss me good bye instead of me initiating. Same thing for goodnight or hello when back from work.

W said she and me are just trying to keep some semblence to stability for the kids. I asked what that meant. She said A live for them of security for a few months. I asked what a few months meant and she said ok a year or more. I clearly was not happy with this discussion and she asked did I want an inhouse seperation. I said some has been doing their research because I don't know what that means. She said when she brought it up 7 months ago ( seperation) I said we can't afford to live in seperate places withe the current finacial sitch.

She had a real problem with me this evening and asked what I was doing on my cell. She went as far as to go in the house while I was on the porch and then quickly dart to the window and she saw me pickup my cell. I was just typing out a list of things to do around the house. She thought it must be something else

She then said MC said something powerful.. this (us) could work if we thought it was worth it. She said she didn't think it was worth it. That was not exactly what was said but she did this before to rationalize what she was doing. She loves pulling 1 item to make all things true.

W needs us to stay together so she can go to school. She can't go to nightschool without someone to watch the kids from schools out til 11 pm 4 nights a week for 6 months.

[Doingitright]

Where does all this madness end?????? W asked if it is still on for her to go to school and for me to leave my job early every day for the next 6 months. On top of that it was cost some serious bucks. All this after the "there is no happiness in our future" and "it could be salvaged easily but you have to want to and I do not want to salvage it".

Funny thing is she could not even talk to me last night or say good night...just went to bed. I guess with her admission yesterday that she did not want to move forward with "us" she must have thought she wouldn't get the money so she asked again. She did it in such a tactful manner to...via text message

So what would other people do in this situation?
Would you give W the money and bend over backwards to accommodate the request?
Where do you draw the line between understanding and being a door mat?
Is it controlling to not want to do a loan at a time when we will be getting separated?
Is it controlling to say no we cant swing this now due to all that is up in the air?

[iwantittowork]

I was reading a bit on your sitch, especially the last few posts, and I just want to say, it sounds like you waiting to just react to what your W is doing. That's not a good place to be, I know, I did that for a while. I truly believe you need to get out in front of yourself, and not your W. What do you want to do? What are your boundaries? What is acceptable to you? Notice those questions are in reference to you, not your W?

Where do you draw the line between understanding and being a door mat?

I think everyone has to find the line that they are willing to 'draw in the sand' so to speak, or a 'boundary' in other words. What feels right to YOU, what do YOU want.

Is it controlling to not want to do a loan at a time when we will be getting separated?
Is it controlling to say no we cant swing this now due to all that is up in the air?

Neither of those is controlling if it's what YOU decide is what is right for YOU in those situations.

It IS controlling, if you use that as a way to get back at your W, or if you do those things against what you want in hopes that your W will react to you in a certain way.

My feeling is your letting your W run the show, and your show. Time to see what 62906 wants for his life, and start doing that!