Thanks for such a long post (and more to come - goody), No need to worry about confusing me with slang. I'm pretty good on the up-take Thanks very much for the insight - truly valuable as I feel sometimes that I'm to close to the issues to see the dratted things.
Firstly - the "money" thing has been put to bed two months ago. Secondly - my dealing with the sad miscarriages is in no way finished yet. Thirdly - There is nothing more important than my W except for me being in a fit state to support her as her H truly should.
I've learned that while cash is there and useful it's a tool not a master. It's been hard and has been since W was cast out of her job but we managed and now I manage. Every month. The last thing I'll say on the subject is that it's gotten so much harder because the money I literally scrape together for her is cash that we used to use to get us through the month. That now doesn't happen. The cupboard is bare, the freezer is empty and the "kids" went hungry for two days. We didn't die but boy it's so much harder than it ever was. The ones left behind will manage.
Sandi, I realize that you have re-read the original note that my W left for me. I also realize you are not "getting at me" (boy what a change THAT is from what I would have "thought" a month ago). To expand on what my W said from an insightful woman's perspective is truly appreciated.
I agree with you that my W had issues with me in particular and where she saw herself in our R.
Quote:
And that you couldn't afford looking after me
This is the one that I just could not get to grips with. It's something I never said but feel it's something that my W collected from little tiny scraps and built this big single lump of a sentence. Does that sound right to you?
What I see just now after re-reading my W's comments and your notes is that she still understates things ....
Quote:
When you met me as an outgoing person.....
Sandi - she still is. With the M a difference came. That difference was never enforced. It just happened. My W has always been able to wind me round her little finger. She could get away with blue murder. I now see that I didn't cope with that very well.
Another understatement - home 30 mins late. Wrong. Two or three hours late. Quite a few times overnight late. Over a long period of time. These times taken singly would not have been a problem for me. Over time it built up little by little and to my shame became something I couldn't bottle up and the stress caused found an escape. I didn't handle that situation as I should have. Immediately discussed it. Explained my feelings to my W. I'm sure she would have understood. I let it slide.
Quote:
I have been very hurt on many occasions. When you spoke to me in such an unrespectfull manner in front of our friends and family.
Not quite unforgivable I pray. It happened a few times later on in the M. I actually caught myself on occasion and asked my W to tell me immediately if something I said caused her any hurt. A few 2 x 4's would have worked wonders. She never did. Bummer.
Sandi, I am so torn in what to do. In what my wife says I never helped her to do the things she truly wanted to. Now my W is sitting in someone else's house with no support from me whatsoever. What can she now be thinking of me? I can only surmise - "and here am I and I'm still not getting anything out of my H. I still have to ask. And he still doesn't help me"
Sandi - about the line in the sand. I see now that what I should have done was listen. But how the heck can I validate something that my W sees as a fact which is just not true? Ah, don't validate all the points she makes - just listen! Phew!
I'm totally torn. I know what I want to do. I want to make sure that my W is looked after to the very best of ALL my abilities. I have no idea how I can offer it without it being either ignored or point blank rejected.
At some point at the risk of becoming a failure in my W's eyes (ah - that's my perception and fear) I simply have to show my W my biggest failure - that we cannot afford to carry on like this. My W truly believes I can manage to support us both as separate people which sadly I cannot. We can make it as a M couple. But not alone. That's my LAST statement on money.
The near total lack of communication and what there is limited to my W texting demands and then thank you's. My occasional calls to her when I pluck up the courage. These are problems I have no control over.
So what the heck do I do?
Pay her? Wait for court? Wait for her next text? Call her?
Or just carry on and in effect (as my W will see it) ignore her.
I really want to apologize for the mess I made of things in the past and most recently yesterday.
My W you will never be a burden to me. If she puts on a bit of weight then that would be a burden I would shoulder with a smile on my face, joy in my heart and count my blessings for having even more of my W in my life.
(OH I'd LOVE to send her that!)
Comments, suggestions and prayers always accepted.
Firstly - the "money" thing has been put to bed two months ago. Secondly - my dealing with the sad miscarriages is in no way finished yet. Thirdly - There is nothing more important than my W except for me being in a fit state to support her as her H truly should.
I've learned that while cash is there and useful it's a tool not a master. It's been hard and has been since W was cast out of her job but we managed and now I manage. Every month. The last thing I'll say on the subject is that it's gotten so much harder because the money I literally scrape together for her is cash that we used to use to get us through the month. That now doesn't happen. The cupboard is bare, the freezer is empty and the "kids" went hungry for two days. We didn't die but boy it's so much harder than it ever was. The ones left behind will manage.
Sandi, I realize that you have re-read the original note that my W left for me. I also realize you are not "getting at me" (boy what a change THAT is from what I would have "thought" a month ago). To expand on what my W said from an insightful woman's perspective is truly appreciated.
I agree with you that my W had issues with me in particular and where she saw herself in our R.
Quote:
And that you couldn't afford looking after me
This is the one that I just could not get to grips with. It's something I never said but feel it's something that my W collected from little tiny scraps and built this big single lump of a sentence. Does that sound right to you?
What I see just now after re-reading my W's comments and your notes is that she still understates things ....
Quote:
When you met me as an outgoing person.....
Sandi - she still is. With the M a difference came. That difference was never enforced. It just happened. My W has always been able to wind me round her little finger. She could get away with blue murder. I now see that I didn't cope with that very well.
Another understatement - home 30 mins late. Wrong. Two or three hours late. Quite a few times overnight late. Over a long period of time. These times taken singly would not have been a problem for me. Over time it built up little by little and to my shame became something I couldn't bottle up and the stress caused found an escape. I didn't handle that situation as I should have. Immediately discussed it. Explained my feelings to my W. I'm sure she would have understood. I let it slide.
Quote:
I have been very hurt on many occasions. When you spoke to me in such an unrespectfull manner in front of our friends and family.
Not quite unforgivable I pray. It happened a few times later on in the M. I actually caught myself on occasion and asked my W to tell me immediately if something I said caused her any hurt. A few 2 x 4's would have worked wonders. She never did. Bummer.
Sandi, I am so torn in what to do. In what my wife says I never helped her to do the things she truly wanted to. Now my W is sitting in someone else's house with no support from me whatsoever. What can she now be thinking of me? I can only surmise - "and here am I and I'm still not getting anything out of my H. I still have to ask. And he still doesn't help me"
Sandi - about the line in the sand. I see now that what I should have done was listen. But how the heck can I validate something that my W sees as a fact which is just not true? Ah, don't validate all the points she makes - just listen! Phew!
I'm totally torn. I know what I want to do. I want to make sure that my W is looked after to the very best of ALL my abilities. I have no idea how I can offer it without it being either ignored or point blank rejected.
At some point at the risk of becoming a failure in my W's eyes (ah - that's my perception and fear) I simply have to show my W my biggest failure - that we cannot afford to carry on like this. My W truly believes I can manage to support us both as separate people which sadly I cannot. We can make it as a M couple. But not alone. That's my LAST statement on money.
The near total lack of communication and what there is limited to my W texting demands and then thank you's. My occasional calls to her when I pluck up the courage. These are problems I have no control over.
So what the heck do I do?
Pay her? Wait for court? Wait for her next text? Call her?
Or just carry on and in effect (as my W will see it) ignore her.
I really want to apologize for the mess I made of things in the past and most recently yesterday.
My W you will never be a burden to me. If she puts on a bit of weight then that would be a burden I would shoulder with a smile on my face, joy in my heart and count my blessings for having even more of my W in my life.
(OH I'd LOVE to send her that!)
Comments, suggestions and prayers always accepted.
MAC
Mac, the very first line in the sand you need to draw is to tell yourself that it will be ok. You can not change her, only yourself. I know you've read the words, maybe even said them, but do you believe them yet?
The texts are scary, mostly because you are discussing very serious and emotional things in brief bits. And some of them are just swipes at each other dripping in hostility.
You have acknowledged your parts of the problems in your m. Now work on them. There is no "just come back" and then everything is automatically ok. You have learning and growing to do.
If she were to come back right now, absent the learning and growing, it would only be more of the same and a nail in the coffin of your M. Do you understand that that is where she is right now? At some point she would have loved to see you change.
Now, it is only in response to her leaving. She doesn't yet believe the changes are real. And frankly, no one changes over night.
The one thing with the texts is that you respond and always say love and hugs after responding to her nastiness with a not entirely nice reply yourself. I'd advise you to stop that right now. It sounds out of place, phony, and condescending.
Not that you have to stop showing you care. But, you don't have to respond to every text, and certainly not the minute it arrives. Honestly, how much do you think the back and forth texts have really helped either of you?
And you have more control than you realize. Start with controlling you. Set yourself down and take a good look at what is. The reality is brutal, but it is what it is. Now, what do you need to change about you? Without expecting any change in your W, what about you needs to change?
Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08, S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012! Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.
G my friend! Still trucking around I see Not to worry - I'll try the on-line route here. Just a bit worried about the Air Freight offered from the website - never heard of them here - that MAY hit the Post Office when it lands this side of the pond. I'd be much more comfortable with UPS or DHL. Gonna give it a go though. Thanks for the offer though. Truly appreciated.
And now to the Wonderful Wifey!
Thanks for your post and more importantly pointers.
Line HAS been drawn. Actually it's been dug up with a JCB. It will be okay. I've proved a priest wrong, "friends" wrong and some of the in-laws wrong in the past. I'll do it again. It's just the time that it takes for my W to work things out thats the issue with me. I know - patience.
The difference this time is the pressure of the W demanding money and then pleading poverty (underwear falling to bits, need toiletries desperately etc). That hurt I feel is nearly physical. It certainly is mental. Just writing this part has a lump in my throat.
As Sandi and Serenity both said, which I didn't see at the time - the pair of them certainly yanked my chain. And I fell for it. Not again.
I've decided that reading text messages, good, bad or downright evil from either of them is not good. I'm installing a blocker on the iPhone. I honestly can't take any sh!t from them at the moment. I'm trying to work. At home, in business and on my life. Not ready to carry a pile of do-do as well at the moment. I'm NOT cutting off comms. W can still call cell or landline at home or tell friends. Just NOT text.
You are right - hostility is there. Just feeling fed up that my W thinks life is so much better in my world (actually that may just pi$$ her off) but you can see that is not the case. I'm fed up with sponsoring her so she can park her bum in the garden. Off to the pub with "friend". Enjoy Sunday Lunch! Just bites my bum. Not a good way to start any conversation. I fell for it - forgive me.
Wifey, I've acknowledge the my parts of the problems in the M - the ones I've figured out. I've no idea if more will pop up. I will take responsibility if any more crop up and are justified. Just not taking on any more poop.
Learning and working. Oh yes. If you've taken a journey through my thread and seen the darkest deeds, thoughts, worries, ad infinitum, you can't fail to notice the change about 2 weeks ago. From an incremental crawl in the early days through to a BIG BANG moment. I've no idea what caused it but I like the results. My friends (here in cybercra@p and in the physical world) like me. My customers like me. Good grief even the call-center people at the card companies like me! And most amazingly of all .................................... I like me.
I've become so outgoing it's frightening. I used to be a "little" insular. No more. Never again. I like this.
The W needs to get to this "higher plane" as well. Just can't show her the way. Bummer
Quote:
If she were to come back right now, absent the learning and growing, it would only be more of the same and a nail in the coffin of your M. Do you understand that that is where she is right now? At some point she would have loved to see you change.
Oh I so agree. It's happened before. We discussed. We planned. I (note I not We) organized. My W said we don't need it - if we can't sort this out between us.. etc. I dropped it. Heard the phrase "flogging a dead horse"? Bigger bummer
I don't really understand where she is now. I don't think she does either. All I can do now is let her see that I have changed. Not with a list of LOOK - I'VE CHANGED but by my actions, my attitude and my unadulterated love of my W.
Wifey, she DID see it before. I did change but nowhere near as much as this time. I dread to say this but doing it on my own without distraction, journaling my a$$ off etc. has imbedded lessons in my skull that I will never forget. That sound's like I'm saying my W held me back in this growth. I don't know what to say about my own statement. I love my W with a passion. Why would I say such a hurtful thing?
Texting - stopped - nipped in the bud. Totally unacceptable way of communication. Which takes care of your next paragraph. As Serenity said - Tool of the devil. Now I know what she meant. After the fact. After having my face slapped a few times by you lovely ladies. Thanks one and all.
The reality isn't brutal. It's bloody uncomfortable but not brutal. The over-helpful side of me is crying out to DO SOMETHING. The reality is I can't.
Change more? I may be able to do that. It's difficult trying to figure out what other changes I need to do than those I've done already. A boost to the identified ones are the only things I can think of - just more of the above. Jeez - that sounds so arrogant. It's not meant to be I promise. It's difficult because of after the BIG BANG all improvements are relatively small.
Just thought of one - I need my FAITH boosting up a notch or two. Your initial comments gave me that.
I thank you Wifey and all my chums here.
And now - engage 1st gear, get off bar stool, stroll nonchalantly to kitchen and find something to create a culinary delight with (YUM YUM).
OH - there's another couple of things just popped into my brain. My memory has improved beyond recognition. And to write this load of whittering a short while ago would have been just about impossible. Must be the effect of using a loo-brush on my life
Yes - I actually do like me.
Hugs to me - and because I can - to you lot as well
I've decided that reading text messages, good, bad or downright evil from either of them is not good. I'm installing a blocker on the iPhone. I honestly can't take any sh!t from them at the moment. I'm trying to work. At home, in business and on my life. Not ready to carry a pile of do-do as well at the moment.
Gardener likes this.
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
Emotions aren't logical and you have to start remembering that and use this small bit of info to your advantage so that you don't waste your time explaining how you've changed and that things will be better because in the end doing so goes against their feelings and they are in love with their feelings, telling them you've changed and you're different goes against their feelings which they love so much. Agree with them in everything even when they are attacking you, defending yourself against their attacks only forces them to put up their guards even more. Stop defending yourself, agree with them wholeheartedly, if they call you a horrible person, tell them that you are the most horrible person and you agree with them 100% and that you can't understand how they lived with you this long. The idea is that agreeing with them & their feelings lowers their shields, they'll continue fighting you if you continue defending yourself so you stop the fight by disarming yourself and taking whatever they give you (aside from verbal & physical abuse, just leave the room at that point with no response back to them).
Stop using your old logic to deal with their emotions, it never works. Be different, do different.
