Fallgirl`s Second Thread

[Dia]

FWIW, it seems most abusive guys are charming to the outside world. This feeds into their ability to isolate the abuse target because nobody would ever believe that such a gentle caring guy would do those kinds of things. This can even tend to turn on the victim, making her think *she's* the crazy one, maybe it really is her fault, etc.

It's not!

And yes, I know this from experience. My OM was emotionally/ verbally/ financially abusive.

[cat04]

Dia,

I do agree that for some this is sort of a turn on to the victim. And yes, Fg, my H too is wonderful to the outside world. Again I think in part because he is more comfortable being his moody self around me. Originally because I let him be moody and didn't judge him or me. Then eventually it became habit.

I want to say this, hopefully as clearly as I can. I love my husband. I would never have chosen another man to be my husband. He has a wonderful heart and really is a wonderful man.
Was I a victim of emotional abuse? Absolutly. The key word is was. Is that a reason for me to leave him? For me, the answer is no. Is it a reason for me to work on me? 100%. Personally, I know I did not make him act grouchy, be anal-retentive about things, make him yell at me. But I did allow it and yes eventually I took on the victim mentality that I MUST be the cause for all of it. When I talked myself into that frame of thought is when I BECAME the victim. He did not do that to me. I did that to MYSELF.

FG, yes I'm sure, just like in my sitch and all really, there were times when you did do something to make him angry and cause a fight, just like I'm sure he did to you. But are you the reason he is this way? NO. Could you do things differently to take yourself out of the victim role? Yes. But it takes time, it takes at first more courage than you probably think you have. It cannot be done from anger or fear because you will go right back if you don't know you are doing what is best for you. When you can stop being afraid of his reaction or of what he will do if you just let him stew in his own mood instead of joining him and trying to fix, then the boundaries will be easier to set. They will feel right to you. When I was able to say to H, on one of his threats to leave, then go, and NOT be afraid that he would, I didn't hear that threat again for 5 months. Until that point, it was always just held over my head. Because I was afraid he WOULD leave. Well guess what, if he leaves, he leaves. Is that what I want? No. But am I going to live every day afraid that if I blink wrong he will do it, not anymore.

That is why detatching, GAL, 180's, and working on YOU is so important. That is why many of us talk about it so much and don't really post about daily stuff. Because it makes it easier to LIVE, it makes it easier to see if you WANT to continue standing and to know WHY. It gives you power over the only thing you can control which is YOU.

What have I learned about myself through all of this? If I had just walked when it got bad, if I had continued believing everything really was my fault, if I had not done MY work and looked at myself, I would not be with H, but I would be in another R that would have put me right into the same type of situation. I would have remained a victim. I may still end up in a different R down the road. But it will not be like this. I will not go back to that roll. I wasn't always like this, I just was not mature enough and secure enough within myself to maintain it. And H is growing up too believe it or not. I have in recent months, heard things coming out of his mouth that I never imagined I would hear from him. Adult things. Adult concerns.

There is no one simple solution to all of this. There are many layers for each spouse to work through. It is a process that continues for a lifetime. A thought on the kids, I know in my personal situation, my H is/was a wonderful father but I did almost all of the day to day stuff without ever blinking. At this point, I still don't feel like he is trying to not parent, and if we were not in this emotional chaos, I would probably not be as bothered as I am right now, but I am physically drained from all of the running I do with son and what makes it hard and frustrating for me is that I feel like I shouldn't ask for help. Maybe I am lucky in that respect, because all I have had to do is remind myself that even though H is working a ton, he is a parent too and I HAVE to stop trying to ease his load if it is killing me. In the past that is one thing that I would not have thought twice about. But I have been back and forth with that over the last several months. And I am totally grateful because my R with my S has gotten even stronger than it was in the past even if he is a bratty teenager. LOL.

Have a great weekend everyone, I'm doing the taxi mom thing all weekend so it will be a busy one.

[Fallgirl]

Cat, Dia, TIF

Thanks for your replies. Sorry for the rant last night. The verbal vomiting of anger, I guess you`d call it. MY anger, MY fear, MY playing the victim in all of this which Cat so rightly identifies.

Dia, I don`t really think of my H as an abusive man. Yes, I`ve been emotionally abused but like Cat, I can see(in the cold light of morning here-and sobriety!) that I`ve brought that out in him.

I`m looking at my role in that. I can`t leave this marriage shattered without knowing what I did to hurt it in the first place, so yes, Cat, that it won`t happen again in another R.

I`m so glad I ranted here and not at H. I`m free to be my New Me with him still! Light, airy and loving me.

Mach says I`m not doing LRT properly. I`m gonna study that one and implement it properly.

There`s two other things I`m gonna do. Stop ranting to my Sis. She`s a sweetheart but she`s thriving on the drama of all of this and we`re over and back every day me getting madder as I relay the latest bit of nonsense and she`s getting even madder for me. No I won`t drop her. I`ll explain my position, let her know i`m not going to drive her crazy with all my stuff and talk about getting a life -for her too!-instead.

I`m gonna stop annoying my GF soulmate too. She knows this road better than I and has a great handle on it. Time to be mature here and becoming the giggling gfs we were before the serious stuff broke!

I`m not gonna paint son`s room this week end. It can wait til H is back at work. He doesn`t have to witness me being a martyr and perfect parent.

I don`t want to meet my maker one day and have him ask me what the heck did you do to that guy, why couldn`t you let him be to find the tools he needed to save himself?

I`m drinking more. No not seriously so. I had three glasses of wine last night, one the night before. I`m certainly drinking more than in happier times.I`m dropping that too. Its driving me crazy, making me lazy, driving out the new me.

Thanks, friends, for catching me before I fall!

[job]

fallgirl,
Today is a new day and a time for you to start anew. Instead of telling your sister and gf that you are not going to talk about the drama any longer, why not just stop and let the chips fall where they may? You do not owe them any explanation as to why the drama talking will cease. Start thinking of new topics for your conversations. Get the paper out and see what's happening in your area and plan to do some things that are totally different from your day to day routine.

Paint your son's room when you are ready to do so. Painting is a wonderful way of just thinking and letting your mind wander a bit as you are rolling or using a brush. If you prefer to wait until your h it back at work, but I certainly wouldn't let his presence hold me back if I wanted to paint.

It's definitely time to cut back on the driking. You do not want to get into the habit of having it handy every evening. It doesn't help w/what you've got going on.

Fallgirl, I know you are a strong and independent lady and it's time to dig deeper for that innner strength to help you along the way. No matter what happens, you are going to be okay. Keep your focus on your children and on you right now. God does have a way of dealing w/the lost souls.

[Fallgirl]

Snodderly

Thanks for that. I was lucky enough to get to read it yesterday(though didn`t have time to post) and I took your advice to heart. Made the most of the day. Went to see"The Proposal" with my D, had a walk in the park, did the taxi run for both boys and just as I would do if H weren`t around.

I didn`t know anyone could stay as angry as H is for as long as he is. Found him rooting through my heandbag yesterday-so I`ve left it lying around so he can root through is as often as he wants.

I know I went through angonies snooping through all his stuff for at least six months. Even found a way to unlock his briefcase to find any dark secrets that may be locked therein.

As they say, what goes around comes around. Its my turn to take the knock in the chin.

Yeah, I think I`ll do that painting today.Got some Lenny Cohen albums I want to get into so painting and Cohen would be a good combo.

Thanks Snodderly!

[Storm Rider]

Hi Fallgirl,

Just wanted to comment on a couple of things you have been talking about.

1) I think your H has been hard wired to act how he is acting from his childhood. As he has extreme feelings right now, he is at the extreme end of his scale. Your interactions with him can help him along the scale, but its still going to be how he reacts under pressure in a relationship. I get you do understand this.

2) The when to walk away question? I find this very difficult, but I think you and I have similar views on this one. Assuming no dealbreaker physical stuff etc pops up, the first off its the DB way of working on being the best person we can be. You have worked through heaps, you big one left may be your anger stuff??

Then it becomes about giving your H the opportunity to see the changes. He can be at home on a daily basis and still not be looking at you, I feel stuck on this now.

The last part, is if he sees these changes and its still not working, then its moving much closer to how much is enough. This will depend on what you are putting up with - you have a much harder home life to put up with right now.

You are sounding more confident in the last month, is your mojo returning?!

[Fallgirl]

I`ve had a good weekend. I took Snodderly`s advice and did as I would do if H weren`t here. And I did all my GAL fun stuff with -and without-the kids. I didn`t bitch to my sis either or my gf, just chatted about all the positive things I am doing.

Prayed a lot, meditated. Ran those LRT rules right through my head. Felt less fear ful than ever.

Yes, I knew a storm was brewing. Two weeks ago He had told me he doesn`t hate me, he initiated a little physical intimacy(first time in MONTHS), did say he wasn`t emotionally attached to me-or anyone else. Not even his children

He went home that weekend. His brothers, SIL and kids came for a visit the following weekend. H slid into Mega Black Mood. But I kept as light as I could. Didn`t get into the pit-though in my head(as Mach pointed out) I was.

So this weekend gone by was our first one on our own as a family for a while. I`d expected him to go home for an annual
event which he has never missed before. But I suspect his mother stopped him coming down as I had heard a couple of months ago that she threatened to do that. She is a feriously persistent strong and interfering woman.(Very warm hearted though)I was tempted to bail out but stayed put and as you`ll see fromm my last few posts in this thread DB boarders kept me strong!

I got to last night(yippee!) with no blow out from H. By 10 30 I was about to head to bed when H burst into the room raging "You`ve a lot to answer for! I can`t even talk to my mother now!"

I was utterly mystified but he left just as fast and refused to elaborate. He had told him Mum our sitch maybe six weeks ago and she had been on to him-and me!-ever since. Not me so much though-rang me last Sun for the first time in 3 wks and I told her nothing despite her asking twice. I had no idea what H was on about.

I went to bed. I figured he`d want to rant again so that would be the best place away from the kids.And he did. Came in said the same thing all with terrible anger. Said he couldn`t even talk to his mother now because of me(he had just got off the phone from her)I stayed very calm. Told him I had said nothing to his mother. "No but its because of you I`m in the f***ing mess" My heart was thumping in my ears but I lay back calmly and said
"I see you are angry and I was sorry to see you so angry. But what mess did I get you into"
H:I should never have married you. I wasn`t honest. Everything was done to suit you. I was too weak
FG:What do you mean you weren`t honest?
H: I was a f***ing fool
FG:Please do not use that language when you`re speaking to me
H Why not?
FG: Please do not use that language.

I stayed calm and said nothing more. Really was there any point in asking a raging beast why he thought he was a fool to marry me? Or tell him how little some of our domestic arrangements suited me over the years? Or point out that his moods and anger had caused us so many problems over that time? Or even dare suggest where his anger and his indecisiveness and dishonesty originated?

I thought not.

H looked at me and said"Go on and sleep in your comfortable bed" . I just looked at him and said nothing again.I knew this was another bait to bring up the bed issue-I had told him he could sleep in the master bed room before this when he ordered me into the guestroom, I wasn`t going to fall in for that discussion now.

The really good thing is that I managed to keep really calm. I didn`t get angry back and get to hear him say "Look at you now, putting me down" I didn`t even cry after-though I could have-I read a few pages of my book, prayed and slept.(Ok,I took xanax!)

So he was a fool to marry me. I`m really wondering who the fool is here. This guy isn`t just in MLC he`s got serious issues from his childhood that he has NEVER dealt with. His father battered his mother for years.H,as eldest, was witness to all of that.When H gets into this Sheer Anger mode there is no talking to him. Certainly never any apology the next day-or any day-either. He thinks its ok. If he rises me in the process-he thinks his anger is further justified.

Oh and of course he has valid issues with me-I lost my sense of fun as the kids were small, I lost me a lot on the way, I could have looked after me better, have been more loving to H, I was definitely too hard on him. I`m working on all of that.

He never mentioned separation. But if he thinks he`s fool to marry me isn`t that the obvious option for him?

So Stormrider, you`re spot on with your number 1 observation and I`m really wondering about number 2. A girl can only take so much of this Anger. And I cry when I think of what it must be like to have loving arms around you and someone else to share life`s journey with.

I`ve read that there is such a thing as toxic hope. I wonder if I`ve been at that point for a while. What hope is there with so many issues so unresolved for so long?

And is there any way I could have better stated boundaries here? I really don`t want H to be coming after me in such a rage any more.

Sorry for the very long post. Thanks for getting this far!

[sleeper]

Fallgirl,

I don't think you could have handled that any better then you did. You're right, it's his issues, not yours and unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) there's nothing you can do to help him.

My mlcer also has tremendous issues/damage from childhood and I (and counselor) have always believed those issues had a lot to do with her behavior in mlc.

Accepting the fact that there is nothing we can do to help them through this is one of the hardest things about all this. If you have accepted that fact (and it seems as though you have) then you are very far along in YOUR journey indeed.

Rock on.

[Storm Rider]

Fallgirl,

When you H is in a mood like that, he is talking AT you, not WITH you. He had decided beforehand what he wanted to say. I think if you want to set boundaries, you need to wait until the small windows opportunity when he says the stuff like "lets try again" or whatever. It is at that time you will have the best chance of being heard. I think these small windows happen unexpectably, which is why having a message ready can be useful.

Likewise, if you do feel like you are getting close to asking him to move out and you really want to try to talk to him first, you would need to try and wait for the window and say something like "getting close to curtains for me buddy, you need to understand this"

I too think you handled his flip well. Just please be aware, your kids probably picked up on more than you give them credit for.

[Fallgirl]

Sleeper, have to say you`re a whole LOT more patient with your W than I am with my H. It just seems impossible to live with all these unresolved childhood issues stuff, especially when he`s making no attempt to seek professional help and thoroughly believes I am to blame.

Thanks for your support though. Yes, have to say I`m finally stepping back from his anger instead of jumping right into it like I would have in the past. Boy, its like a furnace.

Thanks Stormrider for the tip re having a message ready for the next window. I really want to ask him not to jump down my throat so suddenly and to rage on and on. He doesn`t do it/has never done it to anyone else-ever.Its just the sudden shock of that out of the blue jolt that really knocks me for six.

I checked on the kids after,one asleep, one happily reading a book and the tird watching TV. They didn`t hear him but of course they know when dad`s in a bad mood.

It sure is no fun.

Appreciate your posts very much, Sleeper and Storm Rider.Dunno where this is going to go.