desperate...

[bluerain]

Do you have evidence to suggest that shes having an A? If you do I think that I would simply say that you know whats going on because of A,B and C and you dont appreciate her direspecting you and your M like that. Or mention that she will lose her benefits if it comes out that she is involved with someone else.

I have a feeling that if you straight out ask if there is someone else, she will lie. They always lie. Or at least tell less than the whole truth, and you deserve to know the truth.

I am trying to think of a way to tell her that you know, or to sort of get her to confess in a way that wont cause a big fat fight. What about you telling her that it would be your worst fear for her to leave you for someone else, and you are so scared that thats whats happening, because(whatever your concerns are, intercepted emails or phone calls, whatever) and that you, and your M deserve for things to be honest.

Hmm, maybe a little too victim-y... Something like that though.

[karen43]

I agree with Br about asking her. Chances are she won't tell the truth.

I think if you have proof of an A you could confront her about it as BR suggested. But generally, I think R talk is a waste if there is an A. From what I've seen. If you want to do intel gathering re: A, Puppy and some others here know more about that than I do. I never wanted to know anything about that!

General advice for seeing your WAW: Look good, smell good, act distantly friendly like she's the mailman kind of thing, polite and friendly but you prob. don't go into R talk. Keep GALing and working on 180s and be too busy to spend much time thinking about her.

Karen

[motoB]

well I went to get my D and the W sprung on me that now she's going to stick to the court orders to the T, meaning that I only have 12 hours to visit my D now instead of the original overnight that she agreed to earlier in the week. She says that she spoke to her paralegal yesterday and they told her that she couldn't adjust any visitation times or she would get into trouble. I think shes lying cause I called around last week and the answer that I got was that she could do anything with visitation hours, because there was no protective order against the D. Not to mention she didn't bother to tell me or the D till this morning. This tears me up horribly.

As far as the other guy I have nothing more than a phone bill, and them denying it. I already caught her in a lie from before we split though, although I haven't confronted her on the lie yet. She was talking to him on the Friday before she filed for D. In one day there was 102 texts, and over an hour of phone conversation. She was talking to him, when she had told me she was talking to her dad. Unfortunately that was at the end of the month and July's bill hasn't popped yet. I'm honestly afraid of what I'm gonna find. My D told me that she W texting him, and the W said she talks to him everyday, which is a different story than what both of them told me.

Im so frustrated right now, cause my W also said that the protective order on her cant be dropped and it will last for a year...

We are suppose to start using her lawyer together to work amicably through this but now I feel like she screwing me now, or at very least she taking advantage of me.

Tonight when I take the D back I want to tell her what I think about her and the other guy, and what I feel like she's doing to me... Ive been trying to DB, but how can I DB when there is most likely another man, and Ive got an order keeping me from my W? I don't know what to do. Maybe make a list and hit my bullet points... please help

[karen43]

Tonight when I take the D back I want to tell her what I think about her and the other guy, and what I feel like she's doing to me... Ive been trying to DB, but how can I DB when there is most likely another man, and Ive got an order keeping me from my W? I don't know what to do. Maybe make a list and hit my bullet points... please help

What do you hope to accomplish by telling her this stuff? I think she'll most likely lie. She is at least having an EA from what you say, and possibly a PA. I think when that is the case, she won't listen to whatever you have to say. Logic and reasoning doesn't work with people having A's. It's a waste of time and won't help your R.

Since you have a child, there may be an order, but when you are co-parenting you will have plenty of opportunities via email and in person. I feel like there are too many sometimes!!! The protective order is temporary, so I would get to working on that. What does your L say would help you with that? Whatever he suggests, I would make a top priority.

Instead of wasting time focusing so much on your W, I think you should focus more on yourself. Do 180s, GAL, make yourself into the best person and dad you can be. Karen

Karen

[bluerain]

You are DBing for you. While she is involved with someone else nothing you say or do will make an impression on her. This is to make you a better person. She will notice your changes, and when her A ends, as they almost always do, you will be well placed to pick things back up.

I think that its really important for you to document when she agrees to do things that are in violation of the agreement, even though she has changed her mind about your D's overnight stay, you should still tell your L that she agreed to it before.

[motoB]

Man yesterday was such a bad day, between me not getting more time with the D, then I did speak with the W and man she came unglued on me, and no matter what I told her or tried to tell her she spun it on me to make me look or feel bad, and honestly I felt like she hated me. At one point she started telling me how I deserve everything happening to me, that I don't know how to love and that's why she left me and how one day Ill get how good she was to me, and then Ill be sorry. She said she feels like I was trying to ruin her life, by confronting the other guy. She still swears that they were just friends, which may be the case, but she says now that she afraid to have any friends who are guys because she thinks Ill confront them( she also said he wanted to back away from her cause I made him feel uncomfortable). I think at least some of that is true, he probably did back off, weather hes a friend or more, that would explain why she was so angry, and mysteriously her going out with friends night that she had been planning... she canceled at the last minute. I feel bad, but dang she started talking to this guy before we split. I dunno. I did make it better last night when I took D back to her and I think I brought back some since of peace to what little bit of a R we have. I was very kind and tried to calm down the stich. By the end I did and she even said I could have some visitation with the dogs. I also saw tears come up in her eyes again when I told her that I was moving forward but not moving on, and that I would never give up on her, but if being with someone else made her happy then that's what I wanted... she said that's true love, and I told her that's where I am. So as long as I can keep it civil, and regardless of what I learn in the future about her, I must keep it this way. Now I will try to DB to the best of my ability, although I know it will be real hard cause I want to reach out and hold her every time I see her, and tell her my every inner thought.

I try to document everything, bluerain, but sometimes I don't get it cause I'm so spun up... man this is killing me

[1853dave]

Yes, it is hard, but STAY COOL. Karen 43 has good advice.

Regarding the protection order (AKA Restraining Order - why don't they call it for what it is?!?) how is it there's an order in place, yet you get to be with your W in person, and speak to her, etc...???? Aren't those violations, or am I missing something???

She will say some hateful and harmful things - try to NOT take them personally. She sounds confused and scared herself. She will lash out at the closest person, and that is YOU!

My sitch is different, but I have heard many of the same words before, and even though I am not out of the woods yet, I get along quite well with W now. You can get there too.

[motoB]

Hey Dave,
basically the judge is an idiot, he grants the order but then tells us to do our D swap in a public place, so he knows were gonna see each other. I'm gonna look up your stich, thanks for checking in on me

I got more crappy news today, basically I have some serious stomach problems(that's gotten much worse due to my stress) and may have to have major surgery to remove parts of my intestines. Hopefully it won't be that severe ,but I'm in a lot of pain, and now not just my heart but my body is hurting. Its scary cause Ive never dealt with anything like this without the W. It seriously breaks my heart. I feel like all the progress Ive made with myself emotionally has gone out the window. I hurt for her just as bad now, as the moment she left. I know legally she cant be there, but I hope she at least calls me. I should probably stop putting expectations on everything... of course I wish it were that easy. wow, its been a tough day.

[1853dave]

Geez...when it rains, it pours... Sorry to hear of the latest news...

Perhaps the judge doesn't want you "harassing" her...but it seems odd that you can meet in public. I don't understand the crazy crap they pull on people. I had a TPO, followed by false allegations, a CFI got involved, it cost me (and therefore my family) THOUSANDS of dollars. In the end, they found nothing wrong with us - we are just a couple with marital problems. Really angered me that the attorneys let things degrade to the point that it did. They were laughing all the way to the bank, I'm sure.

The system is SERIOUSLY flawed. The ones who can change it are just making too much money off of it, so where's the incentive? I feel it is criminal in nature, self protected by the screwed up "legal" system. Like we say in flying, "just because it's legal, doesn't make it right."

Just hang in there - everyone here says it will take time - I know it stinks, but let it happen, and try to take care of yourself. I'm not in a great sitch now, but things are a LOT better than they were all winter long. It takes time. Take the time to do something for yourself, as hard as it is to focus on things. I know, I've been there (and still go there at times) but things will be better at some point.

Does your W know about the surgery? Would she be willing to drop the RO so that you could communicate more? It is widely known that the RO harms MUCH more than it helps. This is clearly documented - just look it up in the internet, or other sources. It is also clear that the ones who follow the RO are law abiding citizens - decent people, and the ones who violate it are typical dirbags.

Hang in there - I know it doesn't help much, but I survived my turn in the barrel, and so can you.

[bluerain]

Hi motoB, Im sorry to hear about your bad news.

Now that you have said some touching and heartfelt things to your W, which seem to have hit in just the right spot, make sure that you dont bring up anymore R talk.

I dont think that it would be bad to let her know about the illness, you can frame it as I cant take the kids that weekend because Ill be in the hosp. I actually think that you should let her know about it.

Even if you let everything go out the window, everyone has set backs. Just pick it back up where you faltered. You will be fine, everyone feels weak and like they have messed up sometimes, you just have to keep going. Things will get better.