Now I'm here and need support. please!

[Trixi]

Hey guys-
Here's a link to my most recent thread Trixi and her weird a$$ H

The short version is H and I have been separated for 2 years now, dating each other on and off and he has finally said that a divorce is the only way for us to possibly have a chance in the future.

I feel SO ambivalent. I am scared, hurt, depressed, angry, confused, sad, resigned. My real question for today is that in counseling last night, the counselor wanted me to share how I felt about my H saying we had to get a divorce so that we could maybe, one day, have a clean slate. I was totally flooded emotionally, so I couldn't really talk, but I did ask *why* I should. C said because then my H will know how this affects me. I said that I didn't see what difference that makes. C said "well, that's part of intimacy". I said that exposing feelings, etc made sense in the context of a marriage where it was supposed to be 'safe', but given that he doesn't want me, why should I take that risk? C said that it would be good for H to know what this will do to me, and that maybe it would make a difference--maybe not, but that no matter what, I should give those feelings a voice. And he finished with "technically you ARE married." :|

H said that he would like me to express my feelings and we are scheduled to go back Monday after I have a few days to process things.
The childish part of me feels like H is trying to be a "good guy" by listening to me express how a divorce will affect me, and, dang it, I don't want him to be a "good guy". I feel like him hearing how much it will hurt me will just stroke his ego. I know I am too close to the sitch to be objective.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts

[bearsfan45]

Hey. You know, I've read similar stuff like this a few times now: The clean slate and such. Kind of like burn the old relationship and build a new one. My ex addressed the same thing. That is kind of strange. Mine was like"Maybe we will find each other again some day" Ummm, from my experience, if your spouse wants you completely out of their life, they he/she will not try to play the 'good guy'. They are in their own world and want what they want and you aiiiiin't getting in the way of that. That said, I think he MIGHT be waffling....having conflicting thoughts. DON'T PUSH IT!!! And DO NOT say something that will hurt your chances. I cannot stress this enough. My mouth has gotten me into plenty of trouble and believe me, they store that stuff away in their memory banks. I'm no expert here, but, "h will then know how this affects me" Huh??? "it will be good for h to know what this will do to me" Um, ok. THAT sounds....a bit out there. Almost like a power type of thing. I could be dead wrong about that. Be interesting to see other responses on this. Well, the only thing that I can be sure of is the stuff that I stressed NOT to do. Either way, it sounds like there is a chance here. Hope it works out for you.

[Trixi]

thanks for checking in Bearsfan. I have an appt this evening with the counselor to go over why I would want to share my feelings...?

Counselor mentioned last night that clearly H's idea of divorce and what it means is very different from most people. (Since most people wouldn't be saying that they still love you and that maybe you'll be back together someday, but for now, they need the clean break.)

H said that he has no idea why he can't just commit to me; that he loves me, he likes spending time with me, we have a good sex life...he will lay awake at night trying to figure out "what his problem is". But, the bottom line is that he doesn't want to be married.

I feel raw right now. I feel like the counselor is asking me to share my deepest feelings and fears with my abuser. No, he didn't abuse me, per se. I'm just saying he is already rejecting me; why show him how bad it hurts.?

[bearsfan45]

Well....He's 46. Sounds quite possibly like an MLC. You've been together 12 years. That's alot of history. And yeah, I will agree with the counselor on the part where H see's the D quite differently than most. My ex has exhibited some strange behavior and this kind of ranks up there with your sit. It almost seems like your H is looking for some type of validation in regard to how you would respond to the D. I want to police my words here as I am obviously no relationship expert, but I don't think that's very nice although if you've read enough of the book and the forums, you will run into ALOT of posts that involve some 'illogical' behavior. On the flip side, I've read posts where the spouse who has left/leaving have said/done things that were pretty cruel. Way worse than your sit or mine. Know what? You need someone from here who has more experience and smarts about this than I have. Just try to keep your composure for now, again, don't say anything you may regret later. I really want to see what others have to say about this. The more i think about it though, the more I think that this is some sort of validation thing. Know this: You're not alone out there. Plenty of people on these boards who feel like you and that includes myself. I KNOW it is tough.

[Trixi]

Thanks BF. It is totally tough. On the one hand, I guess I am glad that he has never said "I hate you. I don't love you. You're a bee'otch, etc etc" But on the other hand, that would almost make it easier and would make more 'sense' as to why we have to go thru this. *sigh* I will probably be very glad that he didn't do those things in the future. For now, it just feels crazy making.

I need to head out to see the counselor; I'll post what he says when I get back and also check up on your thread.

[bearsfan45]

Yeah, i want to hear this. Most of my stuff is in newbies. It's a long story and I have only gone back to being a regular recently.

[Trixi]

Apologies in advance for the length. I had an epiphany as I was journaling this.

Counselor said I could share my feelings or not. It is my call.
His reasoning 'for' is so that my H can know the impact isn't as small is H seems to think. Since H has such an odd idea about divorce (and one that I don't share) it might be good for him to hear my side.

His suggestion is that over the weekend, I write down all the different feelings/thoughts ('voices') I have and then in the next session, using my strong independent 'voice' to express all the other 'voices'. Actually, I think giving voice to all those different parts of me is more for my benefit than for H's.

In my case, I think DB goes out the window at this point. We've been living apart for 2 years. He's talked about moving forward with D several times (granted, he hasn't done anything about it ) but he has never talked about us living together. IOW, he has been consistently leaning toward divorce the whole time.

His complaint is that I haven't held his feet to the fire and I've given him too long a leash. Yeah, he's right...BUT, I also have to wonder where self-discipline comes in. In counseling he said that he "wished he didn't exclude me from his life" and he "doesn't like how he treats me"-- those statements sound ridiculous to me. "I wish I didn't kick the dog everytime I walked by." Then effing quit kicking the dog, you moron!

I'm starting to think that he isn't capable of a real healthy relationship. And I know I need help with boundaries. In 2004, we moved from our starter house to a bigger house and rented out the starter. When he wanted us to move the the bigger house (with almost double the payment) I was freaking out. We had just gotten thru a rough patch and he said to me "This can be our fresh start." Years later when things blew up again he said that his idea (when we first purchased) was that we bought the second house to be his and the first house would be mine. IOW, it wasn't a fresh start-it was paving the way for divorce in the future.

Couple weeks ago he wanted me to get some hair off his shoulders. (hairy guy) His reasoning to me "It's so hot and sweaty. Makes me itch." Funny thing, he went on a beer float trip the next day. (That I only found out about because he got tagged in facebook.) So the REAL reason was for the float trip, not because it was intolerable to have hair there. This sort of "I need hair off my back because it's to awful" happened several times during our marriage and always happen to coincide with him going out on the water with his friends (where girls were)..and no, I wasn't invited.

Beginning of 2008 he was buying all sorts of VERY high ticket items for the family room. (Huge flat screen, expensive entertainment center) and I said "You aren't selling off stock to buy all this stuff are you?" and he said 'no'. Later at tax time, I see that $13K worth of stock got sold at that time. But here's where my problem comes in-- I DIDN"T SAY ANYTHING! I'm too afraid to rock the boat.

He bought an 06 convertible mustang (had to order it) and I found out it was coming from the neighbor who casually asked me if I knew when it was coming. That time I did say something. (It has already been on order for several months by then.)

I could give tons of examples of stupid small "spins" (or ommissions) he has done. The point is that he will spin his explanations so that I won't say/do anything to 'stop him' and/or so that I will help him.
He admits that he is very aloof when it comes to "friends" and has been since childhood. I know him better than anyone.

I did not see a good model of marriage growing up. I think I let my love for my H cloud my ability to really know what is normal/healthy and what is really just crap.

I don't think he is capable of having a real, true partnership. I see that I need to work on my boundaries, expressing my feelings without fear of abandonment...I am willing to do the work. I would have preferred to do the work with him in a marriage. BUT. Clearly he doesn't want to look at himself now. And he thinks divorce will keep him from being hurt.

It is not possible to have the sort of relationship I really want with him. I was patiently waiting for him to get back into the marriage so we could work thru things, but ultimately, that's not what he wants.

He's leaving me, yes. But he is also setting me free.
I'm being rejected and I'm sure in his mind, it's all my fault anyway. Like when I was upset at him going out to bars with his buddies and I asked "how many other *married* guys are there with you? It's not what a married guy 'does'!" and he said "yeah, you're right. But YOU should make it so I don't *want* to go out."

That probably conjures up visions of me being a nagging wife or a awful person (so that he felt like he wanted to go out) but the real deal (per his own mouth) is he liked to go out and flirt. He really, basically, just wants to do what he wants to do. In fact, I think I was way too compliant and understanding.

Well, as much as it galls me and goes against what I believe a marriage commitment is, I think I agree with H that we "should" divorce.

Ugh. that just makes me ill. and sad beyond belief. But if he can't be man enough to do what's right simply because it *is* the right thing to do and I have to somehow 'make' him, then he isn't mature enough to be married...right?

Do I bother to say that in counseling?

[karen43]

I'm starting to think that he isn't capable of a real healthy relationship. And I know I need help with boundaries.

Sounds like you're right. He can blame you for his being self-absorbed and acting like a single guy and lying to you (lies of omission are still lies), but those were his choices and not yours.

It's great that you've realized you need to work on your boundaries. I have to say that your M is a lot like mine was. H acted like a single guy, and I just let him do whatever he wanted pretty much. I tried in the beginning, but eventually felt worn down and gave up. I think my H saw me as an employee or something at the end.

I don't think you have to give up at this point. I'm still DBing and will after my D! Working on 180s, working on your boundary issues, GALing, and all of it is going to help you in any future Rs whether with your H or not.

I do think it ultimately takes 2 to have a healthy, good M. One can't do it all by themselves. But even if your H isn't willing to do the work, that isn't a reason for you not to do your part, working on changing and growing into a better person.

Also, I don't think you should mention the whole "not being a man enough" thing. I think that would come off as hurtful and I don't think helpful in any way. Karen

[bearsfan45]

Whoooa. The new mustang eh? The guy has taste, although I want the new Challenger....ain't gonna happen with me though. I've bought my last new car. And for 40k, for that Challenger, I can think of wiser ways of spending that dough as I am no millionaire. Anyway: Beer float parties+ new car+ other new toys+ 46 years old= 1-800MIDLIFE. If you have read DR, yeah, these are classic symptoms. I also concur with Karen on the 'man enough' Noooooo! DON'T DO IT! you will regret it! Your H and my ex have exhibited parallel behaviors, and trust me, he will NOT react well to something like that. They do NOT want to hear how much they are messing up, even if they are..They are in their own reality, not in the same one as most people here on earth live. They are on their own planet.. Will read your first thread as I have not done so. Thats weird about the 2 houses: One for him and one for you. On a positive note, at least he was thinking about your comfort in regard to that. Mustang convertible...yeah. I'm assuming he can't afford the Porsche, but the Mustang is a good substitute and about 45k cheaper. Another thing: "Incapable of having a healthy relationship" Remember: You guys have been together for 12 years. That's saying ALOT in this day and age. I'm not sticking up for him either....just want to present the good and the bad to you.

[SDFoundGirl]

It's time to learn about boundaries. Everything you feared is happening anyway, and I think embracing a divorce and setting clear boundaries with him might be your 180. He will push against them, but as long as you get clear about WHAT YOU WANT AND ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT and hold him to that, you will be a lot happier.

You have no control over anyone but yourself. It's not your fault he acts the way he does, but you don't have to take it either. It's the subtle switch between thinking like a victim and thinking like a strong, independent person. The actions from the other person might be the same, but the way you internalize it will feel different.

What does Trixi want from her life? What kind of treatment is acceptable to you? You are valuable already...there's nothing you have to "do" to be acceptable. If it's not H, it will be someone else IF you desire it.

It's scary at first to speak up...but I have to say, once I learned to tell my truth and hold my line, I've become a much happier human being all around.

And I wouldn't be doing jack for your H if I were you unless there was reciprocation. "Sure, H, I'll shave your nasty back IF you'll pop this here pimple on my behind before I do that. Oh, and why don't you mow my lawn and take out the trash too."

Find your voice, Trixi. It's a good thing, and anyone who's not willing to respect your truth is not worth your time or energy. Remember that.

SD